Debate God

God is like having health insurance. When you have it, you have piece of mind. When you don't you worry all the time that if you get sick you will loose your house.

 

Are you saying you agree with this quote, it goes something like, "It's better to believe in a god when there isn't one than to not believe in a god when there is one."?

 

You can say that there's no evidence in god but that's not true. Have there not been miracles that people, or multiples of people have seen? Is there not a whole book about his existence? There are somethings that scientists believe in, that they have never seen, and they make assumptions based on the happenings around the things that they cannot see. Is it not the same thing? People see miracles every day. Could this not be gods work and we can infer; through these miracles that some powerful being, like god, caused these things to happen?

 

Miracles are just improbable situations that occur due to probability. Miracles are basically the same as luck. And the Bible was written by who? God? No. Humans. A flawed people. I've read many fictions yet I fail to hold them to truth.

In my eyes, God is nothing more than a placebo. When people say that God makes them happy, it's just the idea of a God makes them happy. Whatever their minds can conjure up about it is what creates their happiness. Just like the notion of a vacation to a busy worker or a beach to a tundra native, it's clearly conscious.

If the Christian God is such a jealous being, why not steal others away from competing religions? Or even make such an attempt as to clarify their existence? And why leave the preaching up to humans if we were created with flaws? And how could a perfect being have such ridiculous human flaws? It's so contradicting.

Religion was created solely for the purpose of explaining unknown ideas to humans or giving closure to those unsure about where they go when they pass on or whatnot. But aren't facts so much easier than faith?

I know my arguments are to no effect to those strong of faith, but I urge you to just notice that some things you believe in...just don't make sense.

 

1) Improbable? More like supernatural. Luck doesn't exist. Really, because the Bible was written by humans its flawed? If someone's ever given you their phone number, you write it down without flaws so it works. Same thing goes with the Bible. Jesus told the apostles his word and God gave the other authors of the Bible his word to write down, and make plain on tablets.

2) Coming from experience, none of that is true.

3) God isn't jealous. God doesn't want people following him like programmed robots. Just because something has flaws doesn't mean everything they say has flaws. All we do is preach the word of God. What is this perfect being you speak of? Humans, or God? In the case of humanity, its quite obvious, we brought it upon ourselves. As for God, he is perfect. The definition of perfect, however, is quite subjective. You can have "the perfect place to die" or "the perfect place to live." You can't just say "perfect" because that's too vague. God emits perfection in his actions however there is no objective definition for perfection, we can't label a universal attribute of perfection because we need an example of it, but that's impossible. You can have the perfect unperfect thing.

4) Where are you getting this information? Please, I'd appreciate if you gave me a list of every religion, and substantial evidence of how it was made up to cope with passing away. You have no proof.

5) Like what? Its more of a misconception on your side. Its not really our fault you don't understand as much as we do about the Bible, but for my sake, don't go about and tell us we're not making sense when you're basing that off of ridiculous claims that aren't substantiated.

 

1) We have already proven that the rate of "miracles" reported by Christians is actually less than the "miracles" that we would statistically appear by chance. Miracles are just chance events, but the people who experience that one-in-a-million chance event think 'this could never happen by chance!' so they call it a miracle.
It's like walking up to a dart board, throwing the dart after being spun around ten times blindfolded, and it landing perfectly in the center. If it happened to you, you would realize how unlikely it is, and call it a miracle, even though it had to happen to someone.

2) Out of all the religious people I know, all of them claim that belief in god makes them happy and confident- they don't like not knowing something.

3) exo 34:14 "for you shall worship no other god, because the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God"
deut 5:9 " You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me"

5) Before I go into detail about things not making sense, I'll start with the basic idea of god. As you have already said, there is actually no proof to his existence; believing in god with no proof is equivalent to believing in mind-controlling aliens without proof, both of which don't make sense.

 

1) Supernatural things CANNOT come by chance. You're still missing the point, I am referring that miracles are supernatural, and you're not. There's a different between improbable and impossible.

2) The idea of God is different than the belief in a God.

3) ooh, lookie here:

jeal⋅ous  [jel-uhs] Show IPA
–adjective
1. feeling resentment against someone because of that person's rivalry, success, or advantages (often fol. by of): He was jealous of his rich brother.
2. feeling resentment because of another's success, advantage, etc. (often fol. by of): He was jealous of his brother's wealth.
3. characterized by or proceeding from suspicious fears or envious resentment: a jealous rage; jealous intrigues.
4. inclined to or troubled by suspicions or fears of rivalry, unfaithfulness, etc., as in love or aims: a jealous husband.
5. solicitous or vigilant in maintaining or guarding something: The American people are jealous of their freedom.
6. Bible. intolerant of unfaithfulness or rivalry: The Lord is a jealous God.

meaning: He's not jealous of what you have, but he wants you to worship him. This isn't greed, folks.

5) God makes plenty of sense. Your assumption of him is created from ignorance.

 

1) Remember when I asked you to provide some proof of supernatural miracles? You provided none that couldn't be explained.
2) I'm confident that we are talking about the idea of god here.
3) I would say that wanting people to worship you would make you jealous.
Let's take another definition you provided: "inclined to be troubled by suspicions of rivalry."
To be intolerant of something is most assuredly to be troubled by it- intolerance carries the connotation that you have some kind of anger towards the offending party. The two definitions have virtually no difference.
5) Man, how many times have I done this... I'm getting sick of it...
There's no substancial proof of god. To believe in something with no proof makes absolutely no sense. I won't expand upon that point any further, it can't be said any simpler than that.

 

1) Thank you

2) Then let's not talk about the belief in God...

3) tl;dr? scroll to the bottom

The argument goes something like this: (1) 1 John 4:8 indicates that “God is love;” (2) 1 Corinthians 13:4 says that “love is not jealous"; and yet (3) Exodus 20:5, along with several other passages, reveals that God is “a jealous God.” “How,” the skeptic asks, “can God be jealous when several verses say God is love and 1 Cor. says love is not jealous?” (McKinsey, 1992). Simply put, if love is not jealous, and God is love, then God logically cannot be called jealous. Or conversely, if love is not jealous, and God is jealous, then God cannot be considered loving. Right? How can these verses be anything but contradictory?

The term “jealousy” most often carries a negative connotation in twenty-first-century America. We pity the man who is jealous of his coworker’s success. We frown upon families who react to a neighbor’s newly found fortune by becoming overcome with jealously. And we are perturbed to hear of a jealous husband who distrusts his wife, and questions every possible wrong action that she might make, even going so far as demanding that she never leave the house without him. Add to these feelings about jealousy what various New Testament passages have to say on the subject, and one can understand why some might sincerely question why God is described at times as “jealous.” The apostle Paul admonished the Christians in Rome to “behave properly,” and put off “strife and jealousy” (Romans 13:13, NAS). To the church at Corinth, Paul expressed concern that when he came to their city he might find them involved in such sinful things as gossip, strife, and jealousy (2 Corinthians 12:20). And, as noted above, he explicitly told them that “love is not jealous” (1 Corinthians 13:4). James also wrote about the sinfulness of jealousy, saying that where it exists “there is disorder and every evil thing” (3:16; cf. Acts 7:9). One religious writer described such jealousy as “an infantile resentment springing from unmortified covetousness, which expresses itself in envy, malice, and meanness of action”. It seems, more often than not, that both the New Testament and the “moral code” of modern society speak of “jealousy” in a negative light.

The truth is, however, sometimes jealously can be spoken of in a good sense. The word “jealous” is translated in the Old Testament from the Hebrew word qin’ah, and in the New Testament from the Greek word zelos. The root idea behind both words is that of “warmth” or “heat” (Forrester, 1996). The Hebrew word for jealousy carries with it the idea of “redness of the face that accompanies strong emotion” (Feinberg, 1942, p. 429)—whether right or wrong. Depending upon the usage of the word, it can be used to represent both a good and an evil passion. Three times in 1 Corinthians, Paul used this word in a good sense to encourage his brethren to “earnestly desire (zeeloúte)” spiritual gifts (12:31; 14:1,39). He obviously was not commanding the Corinthians to sin, but to do something that was good and worthwhile. Later, when writing to the church at Corinth, the apostle Paul was even more direct in showing how there was such a thing as “godly jealousy.” He stated:

I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it (2 Corinthians 11:2-4, emp. added).

Paul’s burning desire was for the church at Corinth to abide in the love of God. As a friend of the bridegroom (Christ), Paul used some of the strongest language possible to encourage the “bride” of Christ at Corinth to be pure and faithful.

In a similar way, Jehovah expressed His love for Israel in the Old Testament by proclaiming to be “a jealous God” (Exodus 20:5; Deuteronomy 4:24). He was not envious of the Israelites’ accomplishments or possessions, but was communicating His strong love for them with anthropomorphic language. The Scriptures depict a spiritual marriage between Jehovah and His people. Sadly, during the period of the divided kingdom, both Israel and Judah were guilty of “playing the harlot” (Jeremiah 3:6-10). God called Israel’s idolatrous practice “adultery,” and for this reason He had “put her away and given her a certificate of divorce” (3:8). This is not the “lunatic fury of a rejected or supplanted suitor,” but a “zeal to protect a love-relationship” (Packer, p. 189). Jehovah felt for Israel “as the most affectionate husband could do for his spouse, and was jealous for their fidelity, because he willed their invariable happiness”. Song of Solomon 8:6 is further proof that love and jealousy are not always opposed to each other. To her beloved, the Shulamite said: “Put me like a seal over your heart, like a seal on your arm. For love is as strong as death, jealousy is as severe as Sheol; its flashes are flashes of fire, the very flame of the Lord”. In this passage, love and jealousy actually are paralleled to convey the same basic meaning —that (aside from a one’s love for God) marital love is “the strongest, most unyielding and invincible force in human experience” . In this sense, being a jealous husband or wife is a good thing. As one commentator noted, married persons “who felt no jealousy at the intrusion of a lover or an adulterer into their home would surely be lacking in moral perception; for the exclusiveness of marriage is the essence of marriage”

Truly, love has a jealous side. There is a sense in which one legitimately can be jealous for what rightfully belongs to him (see Numbers 25). Such is especially true in the marriage relationship. Israel was God’s chosen people (Deuteronomy 7:6). He had begun to set them apart as a special nation by blessing their “father” Abraham (Genesis 12:1ff; 17:1-27). He blessed the Israelites with much numerical growth while living in Egypt (Exodus 1:7,12,19; Deuteronomy 26:5; cf. Genesis 15:5; 46:3). He delivered them from Egyptian bondage (Exodus 3-12). And, among other things, He gave them written revelation, which, if obeyed, would bring them spiritually closer to Jehovah, and even would make them physically superior to other nations, in that they would be spared from various diseases (see Exodus 15:26). Like a bird that watches over her eggs and young with jealousy, preventing other birds from entering her nest, God watched over the Israelites with “righteous” jealousy, unwilling to tolerate the presence of false gods among his people (see Exodus 20:3-6; Joshua 24:14-16,19-20). Such “godly jealousy” (cf. 2 Corinthians 11:2) was not what Paul had in mind in 1 Corinthians 13:4.


If you didn't bother reading that, well here's the super short version:

Jealousy can be a good thing.

5) You have near to no concrete physical scientific evidence for the Big Bang, but complex logic dictates that the validity of the Big Bang sure is true. The logic of God surely does dictate his existence is in fact probable if not "impossible to live without." The problem is that the proof we have "is heavily modified" according to you and many others in this thread. Why can't all evolutionary fossils be "heavily modified?" Orite, cause its science and scientists wouldn't lie. The same logic that gives you reason to attempt to disprove the validity of the Bible warrants me condition to do the same with things that are supposedly proven by logic which I personally don't believe in.

 

1) I said couldn't, meaning that we explained all the miracles you posted..
2) Their belief in god wasnt my point- it was that they are inclined to believe, because it gives them a false sense of confidence.
3) I never said it's a bad thing. I just said that god is jealous.
5)No physical evidence of the big bang? What??
I'm getting sick of repeating things.. You have no proof of your belief. Regardless of the logic of god, until you provide proof, your specific god is infinitely unlikely, as is the existence of any god.

 

1) You said it in the sense that I explained them.

2) Then I ask, why the hell did you bother bringing up "belief" when we were clearly talking about "idea"?

3)

Really? I encourage you to re read your text.

5) I hope you're not getting sick of repeating things. I've have to answer a repeated question throughout this thread at LEAST twenty times, if not thirty or more.

Onto the Big Bang itself.

Give me one, solid, piece of proof, that shows what caused the big bang to happen. You can't give super physical evidence, you can just dictate what happened by scientific laws. Oh and the Bible has no proof? what about Noah's Ark? That surely is some proof. Maybe not of God himself, but it proves that the writers were somewhat inspired by God, so in fact it would not be a surprise had the Bible been true all along.

 

1) Not that you understand, care to provide some of those supernatural miracles you were talking about?
2) I said that the people who believe in god are self-assured by it- I had to say belief; or else I would be saying that everybody finds self-assurance from god..
5) Right now, it's unknown why the big bang happened. The thing is, it doesn't help us to know why it happened- we already know that it did happen, and that means that we can take it as fact and continue to create other ideas based off it.
How can Noah's Ark be proof of god, when it is so incredibly obvious that Noah's Ark does not exist? I'm sure you have seen the huge list of flaws that the story has... All it proves is that there were some good storytellers back in then.

 

1) The point is not to provide miracles, the point is that you compared something supernatural to something natural.

2) On your first post, instead of saying this:

Out of all the religious people I know, all of them claim that belief in god makes them happy and confident- they don't like not knowing something.

You could had have just as easily said this:

Out of all the religious people I know, all of them claim that the idea of god makes them happy and confident- they don't like not knowing something.

5) Good. You passed the test. Your source even says the Big Bang has nothing to do with the origin of the universe.

Its not the story.. I was referring to the Ark itself, on Mt. Ararat. Re read my recent post. It clearly says "Maybe not of God himself, but it proves that the writers were somewhat inspired by God." To further add on to that, you said "You can't prove the Bible is true until you prove that the people were inspired by God." Well there you go, that's just one minor thing.

 

1) And my point is that there isn't anything supernatural.
2) Sure. Now let's continue.
5) By the Ark on Mt. Ararat, do you mean this? I'm not really sure how you see that as evidence of the Ark, considering that it could be absolutely anything.

 

1) Because you're still comparing it to the natural. You don't believe in a God, therefore I'm not expected to think you could believe in the concept of supernatural.

5) Genesis 8:4 (New International Version)

4 and on the seventeenth day of the seventh month the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat.


It very well could be the Ark. Almost looks like a big boat with the roof of it broken out.

 

1) So I'm asking you to show me something supernatural.. If you can't give me any supernatural miracles, then they obviously must not exist.
5) That is the ark in the same sense that the following is jesus.

My point is, you are seeing what you want to see; it could just be a Cheeto, or it could be JESUS! It could be a blob on a mountain, or it could be THE ARK!

 

Just one word.

Bible....... Read it!