The thing about the gravity lift is that it may allow the survivors to reach unintentional areas of the map, like, for instance if the survivors grab the gravity lift and then use it to get into the zombie spawns, then they could spawn kill all of the infected and grab the tank power-up. or get to a spot that only the hunters can reach which leaves the smokers and boomers left with no purpose. And the main point in blocking off the survivors weapons was to make sure that no survivor will kill himself for more health.
Hello again everyone. My internet is back up and so is Live! Glad to be back in the forgehub community. So far, I've had no luck in creating any maps, let alone a survival mode map. At best I will be able to start next week. I can see a lot of discussion has begun over the infected and survivor traits. I have a plan for this, but I need to test this first and then I'll share with the thread. I am not sure how we will deal with the infected not picking up survivor weapons, but I 'll try to find some way of dealing with this. Wish me luck on The Drains.
Chances are, if a hunter has reached the survivors, he's already used his grav lift. Even if he hasn't, and the survivors get it, there shouldn't be very many, if any, places that are completely inaccessible. No matter where the survivors go, they should always be reachable. Spawn camping shouldn't be an issue because the infected should be spawning away from the actual map.
I am currently making a map on the middle layer of sandbox and the walls are just high enough to block the survivors and the Grav lift would force me to make the wall much higher than necessary to block off the survivors. and it is also a problem because the survivors can all hold one which means that no wall will be too high to block the survivors, I say we make the gravity for the infected a little lower, or make them walk a little.
I don't really think that the gravity lift will be a problem on many maps. For one, if the map is made in the skybubble, the only place survivors can go is down to their death. Especially if the zombies spawn in the crypt and go up through teleporters, like my map, Beach House. Or like in Cheesejam's, where the zombies spawn in the skybubble and the humans in the crypt. I have just barely started Deadly Drains, my remake of The Drains in L4D, but I got a really good start. From the spot I've gotten done so far, it actually resembles The Drains very good, especially with the lighting. I'm starting from the gate part and have the gate, the lights, and the one higher area above the sewer done. Spawning will likely be done last. However, like I said, I barely got the chance to start, so until next week I won't have much done. But I'll keep you guys updated with what I DO have done. To disable the zombies from picking up human weapons is a VERY important factor. To solve this, here is a new suggestion, untested. It uses Meta's system where the weapons are covered after the zombies spawn. This way zombies can't pick up human weapons and humans must work even harder with what they have, forcing them to make smart decisions. Of course, there must be limited ammo to make sure they still have the ammo factor and plus, if they run out of ammo for say a sniper, then they must move out of that area to a new one to use their other weapon. This also gets rid of camping, a win-win situation. The only trouble with this is that the humans might still pick up zombie weapons. But this is there either way. If there is any way to stop this, please say so, otherwise I would go with this for now. For zombies, I'm starting to think that a randomized system would work better than a choice system, plus it would prevent zombies from picking up more than one class.
If we are going random spawn for zombies just use chedderboy's method, zombies spawn in a room in crypt, pick up gear in the first 3 sec of their lives and teleport up to the top of the map. In game terms just turn weapon pickup on for base player, off for zombies, and on in advance spawn traits for 3 sec. If anyone says "zombies can get out fast and get guns !!!!1!" just have the teleporters link to upper crypt, under that teleporter put a bridge that spawns in in say, 30 sec, and make the bridge a 3 sec+ run, it not only stops the zombies from getting guns, and gives the humans start up time, but it allows us to keep the ammo pile, which is KEY in the balance of what base to go to, also did humans ever have to resort to beat downs because the MAP ran out of ammo? I think not. If what I have laid out is confusing I can show you my personal version of chedderboy's map, with the spawn bridge added.
That's actually what I did before in my map and it worked out pretty well but there was definetly foom for improvement. So for the random spawn, maybe like 10 tubes in the skybox, or crypt, wherever humans don't spawn, and in each tube is a different gun, for maybe 6 of them there is nothing but in 4 there are different infected that spawn, like tank for one of them. The tubes are high up so that once you leave, there is no way back in. Then the zombies just roam or wait for the bridge to teleporters and go up. It isn't complex, works most of the time (except for fewer special infected, making the horde feel bigger) and should keep zombies from picking more than one class. Just a suggestion, not exactly expected, but makes the L4D feel more accurate and fair.
Hunter: sword *gravity lift if the level permits Smoker: setinal beam (unless another weapon is proven more "smoker-like") Boomer: Flare *Radar Jammer if the level is large enough Tank: Hammer/7-Wood *Some form of rock throwing *=If the creator of the level wants the item/weapon for that class. Because not every level needs the same equipment i.e. If it is a very flat level then the hunter doesn't need a grav lift.
Survival gametype. The link above is a thread of somebodies own L4D gametype posted on FH. I think you guys should go see what you think.
Okay, so then I think we've decided the special infected weapons. Do the normal infected get plasma pistols, or maulers? And do we have exact health and damage stats for humans and infected?
I would go with either maulers or plasma pistols, because smgs are too far ranged so zombies wouldn't even try to melee. It would work somewhat but if I had an SMG, I would stay behind a corner and just shoot. Its cheap but only honor rules prevent it, but what about magnums? It takes so many shots from those to kill a human. Those would work maybe. Oh, for my Deadly Drains map I have finished the main room, the one with the gate that is activated. If any of you have played the Drains, I could use ideas though. For after the zombies have spawned (or as it is a L4D equivalent, starting the event) how could I simulate the eternal fire at the controls there? A killball is too big, and if someone tried camping there before it spawned then they would die and it wouldnt be fair because they can't pick up the weapons then. Please give suggestions.
I still say if the infected start with swords we could have a much simpler spawn setup, but I'd have to say that the infected start with...plasma pistols? well if we could give the survivors enough damage resistance (about 10 -15 sword slashes) without shields, the plasma pistol's overcharge would be useless and the perfect candidate for the infected start.
Without shields though, the health system doesn't work. I'll test maulers this weekend, along with starting the No Mercy Elevator (Last Resort was too hard to forge on). Eternal, try using a grav lift as a min/max switch. Once destroyed, another will spawn by the zombies which enables them to get up to a teleporter...the original grav lift holds up an instantly respawning fusion coil. So once the humans shoot the gravlift and start the zombie horde, the fusion coil keeps falling and exploding.
I would really really suggest plasma pistols. The problem is the overcharge, because that ruins the shields. Hmmm... maybe like you said, high damage resistance, but no shields... yah and then overshields act as pills... I mean shield recharge could still be up but no default shields... that might work... and overcharge on overshields doesnt matter as much due to damage resistance. I wouldn't mind this. besides, the shields don't act much like a health bar, more of just a shield, after all thats what it was designed for. Would it be worth the risk if we took shields off but shield recharge on for overshields? sacrifice one L4D part for another, better melee and zombie looks. I vote it. Now like I said, I need help from someone who's played on The Drains before. How could I keep that one fire going? A killball is out of the question due to walls either blocking it, or just because it is too big. Please give suggestions, no fusion coils. If you need to see the map first just say so. I'll invite you to show progress and hopefully get ideas. I've got a great spawning system that balance the way humans and zombies get weapons. Still testing but it will work really well if it turns out like I want! EDIT: Thanks for the idea Cheddarboy. I'll try it, but I'm not sure if I want it quite like that. But a grav lift might work... EDIT AGAIN: You can't spawn with maulers, so they might be out of the question, so that leaves plasma pistols and magnums, or other ideas if you have any. But no swords, repeat NO SWORDS for common. Swords are specific to hunters, enabling lots of their abilities and making them stand out. So swords only for hunters.
If you have no shields, overshields don't work. They'll charge up, but then disappear. I like the idea of plasma pistols, I'm just not sure how much of a problem the overcharge will be. Obviously, we could go the honor rule route and say "don't do it." And I think that's the simplest solution. On the other hand, if people have a gun, even if they've been instructed not to charge it, shooting it will get pretty tempting. Swords are out, because they're reserved for the hunter. Grav hammers don't work for regular infected. Magnums and SMGs are both GUN guns, and will be used as such. Maulers force close range combat but are spectacularly overpowered. I think this is going to have to be a "lesser of evils" decision.
the hunter IS the common infected because all they do is run straight in. and for the fire problem, I suggest putting a wall slit so the smokers can rock the guys in the corner
What COULD work, is maybe have pallets that spawn ever 10 seconds and the regular zombies have to shoot through the pallets with a magnum(make them so the can be beaten down or something like that, not sure how to but I am sure it could be done) and then all the ammo for the magnum is gone, TADA no honor rules this is just brain storming tho. This idea is mainly for other people to get ideas from.(there would be multiple boxes for each infected to spawn in so both can't use half of their ammo on the pallets.)