I don't think we should overcomplicated the spawns and we need to get the equipment set up first, so we know what to put in the rooms. But I think what zombie you get to play as should be the decision of the player not chance.
if being a special is a player choice, who would play the common infected? then either every class must have a respawn time, or we have to balance out the classes.
I had a little idea for the zombie spawns. There are three floating spawns about three tunnels. (Smoker, Hunter, and Boomer) And you will randomly fall into the tunnels (Since you wont spawn at same spot every time. So it would be like playing verus, you don't pick who you are.
Spawn points will be made by the creator and we don't need a uniform spawn system we need to worry about the equipment and in my level that is where everyone spawns. not everybody has their own room
Gameplay thought I read some of this thread and have a rough idea as to whats going on. I have L4D and was actually making something similer to what u guys are doing a long time ago. My original idea was to have one spot with limited ammo for everyone to hide in on High Ground. All the scenery will be set to never respawn so when its broke its broke and the humans have to try and hold out. Should I still do this? The idea of survival with people playing as the zombies is more like vs. So I've come across a few ideas. Have the zombies spawn with the ability to pick out weapons for about 3 seconds. Only put 1 of each the authurized weapons that was come up with (beam rifle for smoker, sword for hunter, and whatnot) next to the zombie spawn points. First come first serve and only one will ensure there are not too many specials. I guess you want the commons to have plasma pistols right, why not magnums? There will be no chargeup issue and we can make the only honer rule is not to use the magnums or plas pistols. If u spawn near a weapon u should pick it up, most players will. This will free up the custom power up. You can save it for whatever special infected u want to modify like the tank. The length of the custom power up will be maxed out and odds are good the tank will be long dead by 90 seconds. You can make the tank stronger and have a shield decline BOTH OF THESE COMBINED WILL FORCE THE TANK TO RUSH! You can give the tank a sheild leech so if he attacks the survivers he heals and his sheild won't go down so fast. He could also have a few spike nades to simulate the rocks he'll throw but he must use those 2 wisely. What about alphas? You can give the alpha zombies hunter traits, sword and speed ect (takes care of that) but be weaker to make it fair to the humans. This will give the starters a fairer fight against the 12 humans. The smoker can was meant to be a distance fighter so he can keep the beam rifle. The boomer can have the needler because 1) the explosions will disorientate the victim and confuse him and attract other players maybe. 2) Its a medium ranged weapon that is kind of obvious like the fat boomer. 3) if the zombies need about 10 hits to kill someone the needler won't be too bad. Or you can give the boomer the flamethrower. Makes him slow and obvious. A burning player has trouble seeing and his weakened state will make him a zombie magnet. All zombie weapons will be set to instant respawn since it takes about the same time to become a special in L4D, 25 seconds to comeback when lost. Let me know if this helps! Use these weapons near the zombie spawns. Can you make it so Alphas won't be able to pick up so they don't become fast AND have them? I don't remember being able to do zombies and alphas seperately. If not you can make it an honer rule so they shouldn't do that. No big deal. The common players from the infected humans will have the ability to become random specials for a short time. There is a glitch that will let you hold a power up in forge but it may not work in the actual game. You have to approach the power up with equipment holding down the exchange button which is RT i think. If you do it right you will carry but not use the power up and drop whatever equipment you got. When u die you release the power up and a teammate can use it. MAY NOT WORK THOUGH.
I gave my boomer class a flamethrower that doesn't respawn and shotguns that spawn under it for later boomers. I think it should work pretty good in gameplay considering in Left 4 Dead versus if you notice, you always get rushed the hardest at the beginning. A normal games goes: Human spawn, grab weps, get rushed. If the initial super-rush fails then it's all about just weakening the survivors down and eventually killing them before they make it to the end right? Well the boomer is a very important key aspect to the initial rush in every game I play, so it makes sense to give him a powerful weapon which also acts exactly like the boomer. (blind w/ fire, limited range, overheat = vomit recharge, and damage over time from the fire representing the horde hitting you.) In my gametype survivors can only pick up weapons in the 60 seconds they have to prepare, then their spawn traits go away. So humans picking up the flamethower wouldn't be a problem (even if it was on, why use a slow heavy gun when you have BR, shotty, or sniper?) Good or bad idea? I still have to get on live to playtest it, but in writing it seems great.
I personally would put the flamethrower on instant respawn or a low number because it takes long enough. I thought about the humans taking the flamethrower but its not a weapon I would want to have in a rush or a tank attack. If you take away the ability for the humans to pick up weapons then they can't get their ammo when they need it right? You usually die b4 running out and just like that other guy said you need to balence defense with offense. Whould u rather be safer or more heavier loaded?
The common infected will never get any gun, the only possibility is the SMG The magnum is way too accurate, and the plasma pistol overcharge is way too strong however the SMG is inaccurate weak and all around bad, the only problem with the SMG is that you can duel wield it... I suggest that every infected starts with a sword Or the alphas (initial team of zombies) get swords and all of the newly infected get SMGs The only problem with the flamethrower is that the tank will be near useless if the survivors get their hands on one. I say we don't have a boomer weapon just equipment that the hunters pick up and toss
The Tank can't have decreasing shields because then the shields can't even charge up to begin with. I think beam rifles and needlers are too powerful for any infected. For common infected, make weapon pickup disabled so they can't dual wield. Flamethrower would work great if you could put multiple on the map. If humans can pickup weapons in the game, make sure to give special infected zombies multiple weapons (Like five carbines instead of one). If a human picks up and keeps a special infected weapon, then it will never respawn until the human drops it. Equipment isn't a problem for this because it would be the infected's fault for not using it.
The smoker is a tricky one because he cannot, I repeat cannot be a hit and run infected. He cannot just be a guy with a long range weapon either. He needs a weapon that does damage depending on how long he is out and it can't be a Very long range weapon (a sniper) so the setinal beam and the needler, I believe are our prime candidates. I believe we will want the standard spawn (3 second spawn, 10 second suicide penalty) to be a hub spawn, like your level's spawn and my level's spawn, and have the weapons on a timer , 2 swords on 30 second timers, 1 smoker weapon on 45 second spawn, and one Boomer weapon every 60 seconds, and a tank at 120 seconds, that means that we will need the common infected to be able to pick up weapons for at least 3 seconds. I, however still believe that every infected should start with a sword because that lets people run straight at the survivors, where the SMG may cause the common infected to stop and wait for things to spawn. And flamethrowers are just too strong to be in L4D.
This is what the special zombies should pick up for class spawning Boomer- what about fire bomb grenades instead of the flamethrower because you can't pick up fire bomb grenades once you throw them obviously. And give the boomer a flare and an energy sword Smoker- no grenades for the smoker but definitely give him a sentinal beam and sword for secondary. Tank- a gravity hammer, custom power up, and sword most likely hunter- What I'm hearing is that sword and a mauler are the best weapons for this zombie. And a grav lift Common infected- idk i'm not sure what to do it seems like you guys have some good ideas for these zombies. this is what I think
If there was a way to ensure that the flamethrower would never be picked up by the humans, and would be available for every Boomer that spawned, then I agree it would be a great weapon. But as soon as the boomer dies, the humans will pick up the flamethrower, which will prevent it from respawning for the next Boomer. I think the sentinel beam is better than the needler, because it reveals the smoker's position, requires the player to focus on the target rather than spraying and allowing the auto-aim to work, and deals constant damage, with overheat, rather than x damage plus explosion.
fire bombs for boomers.....nice it helps create a close range "flare" and some horde damage too, might be helped by the radar jammer imitate the lose of outlines, sentinel beam is looking pretty nice for smoker, as it is best used continuously and discourages hit and run, hunters, sword is a must, and the grav lift is surprisingly useful, you can move a whole team around with a well placed one, or really shock humans with an assassination, so just the grav lift and sword might be good enough, if not, i vote camo, as they are hard to see in game, and adds the surprise element they have. Tanks, just hand them a grav hammer, and a custom power up that enables shields and drains over time and you have him. Lastly common infected, SMG or sword should work as a base weapon to hand every class, if we leave shields off you could headshot anyone but a tank, as for dual wielding issues just stick a 3 sec respawn trait for picking up weapons, problem solved. Looks pretty good, but if we keep shields off for zombies, we need slightly higher damage resistence and the humans should keep pistols, for headshots, and the assult riffle MUST be the assult riffle not the battle riffle, as then you would just headshot the entire zombie team to peices, not a good thing.
The humans could pick up the Gravity lift, so I say it doesn't go in the game. I say we turn up the weapon pickup time on the common infected and give them a sword. And I have a radical (kind of new) idea which gives a clear end to the humans, when they run out of ammo We cover the weapons after 30 seconds, It's alot like cheeseJam's system but on a much smaller scale It's about the size of a wall and it will stop the zombies from picking up weapons and more importantly will stop suiciders from killing themselves for more health
for suiciders dying for more health just attach a large penalty for it, problem solved, also whats the problem with humans picking up the grav lift? just make zombies move faster and jump higher, in addition zombies can spawn more hunters and smokers who can easily get to the humans new hiding spot, also they WILL run out of ammo if nothing else, finally if you take away the hunters grav lift they lose their jump, a key ablity in the game, as you suprise humans for the best kills as a hunter. As for finishing off the humans, i don't know a team of humans who can fight a well played zombie offense if only two sword swings take down a shieldless human, so that shouldn't be a problem. Also I would like to know why we should up the pick up time for infected if all the gear you get spawns two feet in front of you.
You can't make a player spawn with the ability to pick up weapons, then later make it so he can't pick up weapons. It should work, but doesn't. Or at least it wouldn't with my map.
Set the normal traits to weapon pickup: off, and in the advanced respawn settings, turn it to on. The player's first life isn't counted as a respawn, so the first wave of zombies will always be common infected, but after that they can start picking up weapons.
If someone makes a map in the middle layer of sandbox and the humans can get out It would not be fun for the infected, and games are meant to be fun, not accurate. and for the spawn timer suggestion what if the infected happens to be doing something else for about 3 seconds, like answering a phone call, or talking to someone, or admiring the scenery, then that player shall not be punished. I just think it isn't cool to take weapons that should be for the infected, away from them, like a hunter and smoker duo, where the smoker dies just inches away from the hunter, that hunter should be able to avenge the smoker with the smokers weapon.
If they're busy, then just like any other player, they run the risk of having something bad happen in-game. What if a survivor is busy? We should put an infinite overshield in a corner where they can go so they won't die while they're busy! /sarcasm Ummm...no. If a smoker dies, the smoker dies, and its up to the hunter to use the class he chose to avenge the smoker. If you could pick up weapons on the field, then what's the point of choosing your class when you know you'll be able to pick up other weapons? What we should do, is have the respawn traits enable weapon pickup, but heighten the gravity. The infected can choose their class, and then when the respawn timer runs out they can jump higher, enabling them to reach a teleporter that has been placed just out of reach.
I wish Left4Dead hasd more sandbox (not the map) gameplay instead of linear gameplay. These maps are great remakes though. Thanks for teh thread!