The boomer's main function is to give cover for an attack. The smoker does long range damage, but as a secondary attack can also inhibit the survivors. A radar jammer, while it does disrupt the survivors, does not do as much as a flare. The boomer's sole purpose is to somehow disable the survivors. The flare/radar jammer should be the only piece of equipment he is given. Whichever one it is, it should offer standalone effectiveness. With a flare, the survivor's vision is impaired. They must either back into a corner, use their radar, or rely on their teammates to help them. With a radar jammer, the survivors may not even notice. They can continue playing with barely any loss of ability. The flare is more damaging than a radar jammer, just as barf is more detrimental than smoke.
We need more people to settle this dispute my final opinion The flare has too short of a lifespan to be for a boomer, it doesn't blind the survivors enough to be a sufficient piece of equipment, and it is very easy to just use your radar or look for the names of your enemys. However the Radar jammer gives a large opportunity for the hunters to assassinate the survivors and enter the scene undetected, It also lasts much longer than the Flare. I had the flare in the original level of my Rooftop Finale but it didn't do much so I switched it to a radar jammer and now the boomer works
Maybe you can take out the boomer and make your own zombie character like a zombie with flame based weapons and grenade launcher because flame makes your screen blurry and hard to see and the flame thrower makes you move slower like a boomer.
Have you tried the flare in a L4D game it's near useless Even if the boomer gets the flare the smoker definitely should not have any equipment
I can concede the point of the smoker's radar jammer, as long as boomer gets flare. A fire zombie SOUNDS cool, but what purpose would it serve?
We should test some L4D gametypes soon to get this all ironed out. and no flame zombie although it is really cool all of the flame weapons do way too much. but if you guys get it to work... It also isn't in L4D and n00bs would be all "Ders N0 Flamee Z0m813 in LFour D!!!"
well the flame kind of blurs the screen amd turns it red so it is a lot harder to see. But its just a suggestion
let's lay down the feel for L4D Zombies have no guns (aside from the smoker), period, no guns, hit and run is not how the zombies play, they are do or die, no guns, plasma pistol overcharge is way too strong for it to be the zombie's starting weapon. Hunter is not stealthy but the best hunters were, but stealth should be the Hunters choice and not only option. But I felt in L4D the hunter's style was to do damage to one person die wash rinse repeat. Smoker's role was to select one survivor and isolate him from the pack. he was also not hit and run. Boomer was almost a kamikaze infected, he summoned the infected, usually died after he summoned because he was so close and then he was done. Tank selects one survivor and beats them senseless until they're dead but against a good team he usually only got one survivor down. This means that point blank he should be able to best one survivor and only one. We need to simulate the feel of L4D, not how it looks, period, looks can only take you so far, until people realize that the game isn't too great. we all need to build off of a formula and select the best weapons/equipment to simulate L4D
in my experience humans with any amount of shield regen can outlast unlimited zombies if they are good, so to balance for the zombies the health bar is needed for survivors. If we do this the zombies MUST have swords and no plasma pistols, as instantly taking of ~75% of a survivor's health is not the power the have, even on expert. I also encourage the health system for zombies, as it encourages zombies to rush humans to get the most out of their lives, like the AI in L4D. As for Infected, common infected and boomers should be ~1 spartan tough, as it is one sniper bullet, or one shotgun shell. hunters and smokers both have ~2 spartans worth of health, done by giving the zombies an overshield (which won't regen due to zombies also using the health system) because they need that extra second to use their abilities. finally tanks have ~8-10 spartans in health, sustained fire brings them done, but one on one your in trouble. As to equipment here is what i think and why, 1)common infected: energy sword (Plasma pistol doesn't work with health system) 2)boomer:energy sword, flare (in the radar jam vs flare, if you are good in L4D you can slightly see the oncoming zombies, just like you can see name tags in halo 3) 3)smoker: energy sword, sentinel beam (the tongue is noticeable and using the beam encourages pestering not sniping), and an over shield (they are tougher then common and boomers after all) NO radar jammer think about it has sniping already, that's more than any other infected can say so it doesnt need more help 4)Hunter:sword,overshield (more health just like smoker), grav lift (jumping ablity) as to why it gets nothing else, the hunter in L4D versus is one of the hardest to master, like how to use a grav lift properly, in the hands of an expert you could quickly assassinate a survivor for an instant kill. 5)Tank:sword, gravity hammer (fists), cutom power up (health increase, shield degen, marker on head, forced color black) well the tank doesnt need overshields as the custom power up can do that and more. for conveince here is the health of the zombies (spartan is one player with regular settings) common + boomber = ~1 spartan (set with zombie traits) smoker + hunter = 2(common health) overshields double health tank = ~8-10 spartans w/ shield degen (controled by custom power up) surviors= 8 spartans (4* overshield and 200% resit) just trust me this way a shieldless human dies in ~2 sword lunges instead of ~3 don't trust me do it yourself tell me if i got something horribly wrong, or you dissagree just tell me why (side note, couldn't we just hold a vote on what gets chosen if we meet a dead tie)
I almost entirely agree with this (I still say the flare doesn't last long enough to be a boomer) and I like the over shield formula The setinal beam seems nice but I'm worried about balance, although it doesn't have much ammo... more testing is required. things to test boomer flare/radar jammer/Flame Thrower? smoker setinal beam/needler/beam rifle shields zombie and human and tank any others?
I agree with pretty much everything there. The tank shouldn't have a waypoint, in my opinion; the overshield should be enough to make it stand out. As for the sentinel beam, if the damage settings are turned down for infected, and the survivor's damage resistance turned up, it takes ~10 seconds to kill someone. It overheats in ~7 seconds, so its not particularly overpowered.
first of all the reason for the forced color change and the tracker, is to helper differentiate between hunters, smokers, and tanks at a distance. second, nice side effect of the flamethrower, you DO slow down the boomer, something i couldn't other wise do, good idea. I would vote not needler for the smoker tongue, as it doesn't track much and 7 needles will deal ~2.5 spartans of damage, as for beam riffle verses sentinel beam i don't know, more testing is needed. Finally what to do with spawn ratios, i don't know numbers yet, but to be nice to the object limit we should either use 10 or 20 spawn points total.
The flamethrower is good for boomer, except for a few things... There can only be one on the map Humans could pick it up after the boomer died and it'd be useful. So I'm thinking no flamethrower. As for spawn ratios, I used 26 spawn points in my map, 10 for normal, 5 each for special, and one for tank. The tank barely ever showed up, but other than that the ratios were pretty good, imho.
Well, the way I think it should be done is the way I did it, obviously. Maybe with a few tweaks. Survivors should have a lot of health, and no regeneration. It should take about the same time to die as in L4D. 150% DR and 2x overshields is not enough, and you can die too quick. Shotgun should be a weapon, obviously. Sniper is very similar to the hunting rifle. It has great range and can go through multiple zombies. Assault rifle (H3) does not have enough range to be the AR form L4D, which is why a BR should be used. Like in L4D the BR would have medium range. Zombies definitely should not have plasma pistols since a shield system is being used. It is not L4D like at all, and creates a whole new experience, which is not what we are going for. We are going for a remake. In L4D, all the zombies, except for the Tank, must use stealth. If they are seen, they are dead. That is why no shields should be used. Boomers should not just have a flare. The flare in Halo just blinds people, while the bile in L4D blinds people AND does damage in the form of a horde. The best way to replicate this in Halo 3 is to give a boomer a flare and a close combat weapon like a shotgun. Smokers should not have radar jammers. Smoke is almost NEVER a factor in L4D, and a radar jammer for a smoker would make the boomer's flare seem weak. I think smokers should use a carbine or a sentinel beam, beam rifles do too much damage. Tanks should not have a waypoint, just a color change. An overshiels and a bright color should be enough for people to tell the difference. Overshields for Smokers and Hunters would be nothing like L4D; that would be WAY too much health. Common infected should get a close combat weapon to simulate beatdowns. I think a shotgun should be for a boomer, and sword for a hunter. So the next best choice is an SMG, or a mauler if you want to add extra weapons to the map. I think common infected should run a bit faster too. Not to sound rude, but it seems like a lot of you guys have barely even played L4D. Plasma pistols for all zombies, overshields for smokers and hunters, a waypoint over the Tanks head...? These are not L4D style at all, and would completely change things and not give us the L4D experience that we are looking for.
ummm sir your regular special infected takes more more bullets than a common infected, and the over shield makes it so it only takes 2 shots to kill them instead of one, its not that big of a difference. also i use the SMG a fair bit, its not close range its long range. also wouldn't shotgun for boomer break feel of the game? I don't mean to be rude but i don't remember zombies with guns, and why can't infected share the energy sword, they all use claws? Also have you EVER been suprised by a tank? I don't know about you but in my limited game play, the music, and the thumping gave away the tank, not having musical cues I gave him a marker. One last thing in my text i opted for 4 overshields and 200% damage resist, that comes to 8 spartans, with an the humans body health regen bringing them to ~2/3 of a spartan.
Special infected and common infected basically die in the same amount of time. It not really a matter of how much health they have, more like when they are spotted, they are dead. In what I was talking about, there is normal damage. So overshields is WAY more than no shields. Plus, they won't stay charged, so it would not work well. SMG is not even a medium ranged weapon. Sure it gets a few minor points of damage in, but it is definitely close range. Saying SMGs are long range is laughable. Maulers are an option too, if you have the budget. Well zombies don't use swords either. Boomers and hunters should do more damage than common infected, like in L4D. Hunters need swords to help duplicate their pounce in L4D. Boomers shouldn't get swords because they don't have a lunge/pounce. I am always surprised by a Tank. It's not about when it's coming, it's about where it is coming from. Besides, you should know one is coming about every 3 minutes or whatever you have it set to anyway.
i have played tons of L4D as of lately, and i have to agree that CheeseJam is far closer to replicating this than any of you. take that offensively all you want, but none of you are really preserving the style or experience. as a side note: it may be very powerful, but if you dont want to give the boomers a flare because its not effective enough, why not try a power drain... its like puking on them, and the damage to them is sorta like the infected attacking afterwards. my first choice would be the flair though.