Debate God

Um... no. Why do people think that non-believers have miserable lives?

I love my life. I value it, and the fact it is finite, and there is nothing after. I consider myself a very cheerful person.

I don't have any faith at all. And that doesn't make me want to kill myself.

 

And what would happen if you were to lose your loved ones in a tragic accident... Would you be miserable knowing that your parents have become nothing, that they were insignificant and that they are clearly... "Nothing" anymore.

Would you then say. "This planet is Hell" Would you then want to kill yourself since you do not believe in Hell, and the consequence of suicide...

 

If I lost all of my loved ones, I would be miserable, duh. Who wouldn't be sad in that situation? I have lost loved ones, and I have been sad about it. And if I think about them, I still get sad. But you move on. You can't dwell on the past forever, or it'll consume you. I wouldn't think however, that they were insignificant. Their lives mattered greatly, to those who knew and loved them, and the things they accomplished in their lifetime. They would always be living on through the memories I have of them.

Of course I'd be miserable for a while. Find me someone who wouldnt be miserable at the death of loved ones. but I wouldn't feel that the planet is hell or my life sucks and I should end it. I still would value that I am still alive, and that my family and loved ones would want me to continue living to live my life, what remaining time I have, to the fullest.

 

we all have miserable lives, everyone. there is fighting, dying, sickness, lying on this earth. wouldnt you want to get to a better place, or if you dont believe in a God just end this suffering now?...wouldnt you want to strive for a better place? people who dont know Christ are sad because they will never get to Paradise, but are here on this planet so we can teach them about life after, and that is what God wants.

 

I am not attempting to support them, I am attempting to put them in a position in which having faith would be cause much more comfort then anguish.

 

Happiness is a sense of self. It doesn't matter what environment you live in. I believe I am in the happiest place in the universe. I would very much like the idea of heaven and hell to be true, it seems like an ideal world. But people can't just be thrown into two piles. People can't be labeled as "good" or "evil." It is the combination of these good and evil traits that make us human.

 

OMFG do you read?

IM NOT MISERABLE WITH MY LIFE.... I just said that...

IM NOT MISERABLE WITH MY LIFE. I LOVE MY LIFE.

Just in case you still haven't realized, I put that. Honestly how can you say that after what I said?

Sure there's all taht killing and death and such, but I, maybe unlike you, don't let it get the best of me. I try to live my life as happy as I can, and im very happy.

I don't give in to that evil.

I don't end my life because why would I want to end something I love? All good things come to an end, and my life will end, duh, but not right now, not because I have no religious beliefs.

And actually, the thought of Heaven, or paradise, whatever you want to call it, almost scares/repulses me. The thought of living eternally is horrifying. I'd want to kill myself then, and I wouldn't even be able to do that. How anyone wants so badly for eternal life I don't know. Also, if it's eternal happiness, that is almost impossible. The only reason you can perceive anything in life as joyous is because it can be related to as better than the times you aren't happy. If you are never sad, or never any other emotion but happy and all, then what's there to be happy for?

Having other feelings and emotions makes you human. I rather die human than live eternally as something else.

Also, you, and I've seen others say, that only people who know God or know Christ can be happy or actually believe in them. Many atheists and agnostics are people who WERE once religious. I was. I was raised jewish. if having to be religious is the only way to know and believe it, then why has anyone ever converted from religion? Shouldn't they have been so convinced and positive of their religion that they could never possibly convert? Obviously I'm just playing off what you are saying, but what you are saying makes no sense in that way.

And this line:

"but are here on this planet so we can teach them about life after, and that is what God wants."

That makes people that aren't of your faith, or arent religious, sound like inferior humans. Or that we are like, diseased and only you can save us. I don't care/want your help with something I don't believe. I don't care how much you read this and say "God bless him," or feel some sort of empathy or remorse for me.... I don't care, and thats just disrespectful of my opinion, just as, at least for me, I try to be respectful of yours. Saying that your purpose is to help those who don't believe what you do. At least not in a debate.

 

So.. you typed up some verses and are telling me to handle it somehow. You bring up no argument.

 

sorry for that. But LionsNate went and called me miserable, after two posts of mine in which I said I wasnt. Had to try and make it clear somehow. ;P

 

Especially because the digestive system, providing you survived past the teeth of the fish, which in a whale I guess you could, would kill you.

 

He probably wasn't unscathed, I'd glad the Bible doesn't go into detail about Jonas's time inside a fishes stomach. He must have looked awful coming out after sitting in stomach acid for three days. The Bible doesn't say he wasn't scathed, so where's the argument?

Is it that you think it impossible that a man of roughly 5 ft. could survive inside of a whale. I'd like to see it disproved rather than say it couldn't happen simply because it expands the imagination.

 

How is eternal happiness torture, as compared to the world we live in now, a cesspool of sin?

I honestly don't see how someone like yourself would rather live on this earth than have ETERNAL JOY forever. Its like saying "you can take this chocolate bar, or this chocolate bar, but this one's better. You should take this one." then taking the worse one because the better one lasts longer.

You don't have to be religious to follow Biblical or religious principles and uphold them as truth.

Inferior humans? srs? (honest question here) You find it disrespectful that we want to save you from ETERNAL TORTURE? THAT'S disrespectful? Come on.

@Jonah: If God is omnipotent wouldn't the possibility of this be too easy?

 

First: I don't think the happiness part is torture, I think the eternal part is. Anything eternal isnt exactly a great thing. Do you understand how long eternity is? And explain why I would be so happy. What's to be so happy about all the time? Because I'm with God? Is he just like this glowing being of total awesome happiness? I don't see the awesomeness of eternal life I'm sorry. On paper, it sounds great, never dying and living forever. But in reality how is that awesome. In my opinion, being finite is what lets me be happy. Living infinitely, it's almost like, well I can't be punished, can't commit sin, can't die... can't even do anything productive for human kind. I am technically dead on earth, so its not like I can go help use my eternal life to benefit mankind by spending centuries improving technology and spreading my now proven to me word of God? I don't see the incredibleness in it Im sorry. And the chocolate bar analogy is different. With two chocolate bars, where one is better tasting or laster longing but the other isn't, first of all, a lasting longing chocolate bar Whoopee! I can wait a longer time before I eat it. Better tasting, sure I'd take it... it's not like I'll be stuck with that bar forever, because the chocolate bar is also finite, to as long as I go before eating it. Then its done and I am not stuck for eternity with some sort of magic bar of chocolate that won't let me finish it, but also won't go bad... (which would be a dream come true for a lot of people lol)

basically, you can't compare a finite bar of chocolate to eternal life....

And no, I don't find it disrespectful that you want to save me from Hell, but that it's disrespectful that some religious people won't accept that I have my own opinion on life and my own views.

Plus, if heaven and hell exist, I wouldn't mind hell as much as you'd think, than be with a God who punishes people who were born imperfect and sinful, and puts them into eternal torture for sins and things not nearly as horrible as what hell is described to be.

Now I don't agree with things like murder and stealing, but like, "Oh no I stole someone's wallet... for stealing someone's material object, I shall now suffer for all eternity in the flaming, blazing pits of hell with people like Hitler and Stalin. And because I was so true to who I am that I refused to sway from my conscience in favor of this God. That is clearly a valid reason to go to hell. Even if I killed someone, or 10 people, or more, does killing something finite justify an infinite consequence?

As a child, I maybe once got in a fight with someone lets say. For that, I was probably punished with a Time out or being Grounded. Did my parents send me to my room for the rest of my life, light my room on fire and then let my sister who didn't get in a fight go have all the ice cream she wanted? Obviously, no. And obviously, thats a little exaggerated, but I think you understand my point, even if you disagree and refute it.

 

Very nice, I like this thread. woowoowoo
Anyway, here is a little thought that has been, ah, bubbling in my head.

God. He made us; he is awesome. He's secretive, and we want to figure him out. But do we worship him simply because he made us? Because he has "given" us morals to follow? Those reasons alone are not enough for me to go out and pray; why should I worship him if he is letting all this violence and hate occur in the world? Because he made us? That's like loving a parent who beats you just because they "made" you.

But maybe we worship because of Jesus, who sacrificed himself. To.. save us from our sin. As aMoeba once explained it, we no longer have to sacrifice animals; we can just confess to get rid of sin. ahem... So that's great and all, you know? No more finding dead lambs on the rocks. Yeah, but there is still sin. Thanks for that free will God, it's lovely.

Ahahum, isn't that what being religious is? And what purpose is there for proclaiming that "this" is the truth? Why not just be good?

If God is omnipotent, why can't he just stop all the violence? Why would he save some kid from a whale? Eh?

 

Just as good deeds isn't a meal ticket into Heaven, sin isn't a one-way trip to Hell either. Faith alone saves and no faith alone condemns.

 

Faith in God? Faith in the Bible? Which version? Is it even the Bible, or the Torah, or some other text?

 

Basically, you can't compare a finite life with many downsides to eternal life and joy, other than the fact its a lot better. It stutters me that some people would rather be in hell than heaven. I think that's just ignorance.

To put it simply, if you were going to bother (just rationalizing) believing that Christianity is true you might as well take eternal joy > eternal hell. What's honestly so good that if you did it eternally it would suck? Heaven is the perfect world... The world we live in now is cursed. IE hockey is my favorite sport. I've spent at least 60-100 hours of my life playing hockey. I've never gotten tired of it.

K let me set this straight. I swear if I see that posted one more time in any debate thread I will go rabid.
God does not punish people to hell!

You don't go to hell for sinning. You already are on your way to hell. No sin is greater than another sin. They are all the same in God's eyes.

We worship him to show our love for him. God (and Christianity) does not allow sin to happen. People like you and me do.

I'm sure everyone has heard of the principle of karma or possibly even the golden rule. These principles were in the Bible before they were in some other religion or whatnot. I honestly don't know why they call it the golden rule instead of stating the verse or the verse's reference. I can guarantee you many people who do not believe the Bible regardlessly agree with the golden rule.

God doesn't want robots to be his friends/etc. I personally would not want to have a robot for a friend, I want someone who chooses to accept me. In the same way God works. God saved Jonah from a whale because it was his judgment and God knew that Jonah would carry out great things. Its discipline really.

 

Fair enough, I lost what I was trying to say in that analogy.

Nah, that robot would be annoying. And, it's nice that God might want people to have a choice to worship him or not. Free will is great. But if not worshiping him gets you into the eternal flaming flames of Hell, what's the point of having a choice?

I'm not going to lie, the Bible has some great parables in it. It teaches great morals. My issue here however, is with the need to believe that it is fact. Even you said like, example, the story of Jonas is silly. So why believe the others are real? What if they're simply more fables?

Why wouldn't God want to save everyone? Why send people out to fight a pointless war (life) knowing some won't return (to Heaven)? Not saying that life is pointless, but in the grand scheme of things, our lives don't really affect the universe as a whole.

So if I steal a chocolate bar, the sin is the same "level" as say murdering someone? I don't think you meant to say that. Clarify?

God does allow sin to happen. (haha, I almost wrote "sing") He has the power to stop it, but he doesn't. He allows it, no?

I'm sure many people who are dying in Africa could turn out to be great thinkers. Why doesn't God save them? Is their predicament not as... "exciting" as being stuck in a whale?

 

Yes, you heard me right. All sins are the same in God's eyes. Either you're a sinner or you're not. Pretty simple really. In Revelation it tells us that God spits the lukewarm out of his mouth.

WE allow it. Not God. If we weren't here there would be no sin.

Who says God doesn't save people in Africa? The basis of your argument is that he doesn't, but you lack the actual knowledge to know whether or not God used them.