Debate God

I'm a materialist. I have no spirituality whatsoever and I embrace the world for what it is. Living by faith, and not by sight proves nothing. You can believe in a god if you reject all forms of evidence. I just find it hard to see people like you, who choose to see god from the point of view that evidence doesn't matter, but at the same time embrace science and logic- they are two completely different ideas.
Even if you have faith, that is not what we are discussing. We aren't discussing whether you believe there is a god; I can't disprove him, so you can choose to believe, even if the chances are astronomical.
We are discussing if there is a god. We are discussing if the chances of his existence are great enough for us to consider him probable. Just as we would say that a teapot orbiting Pluto doesn't exist, even though there is a very slim chance of it, we can say that god doesn't exist, even if there is an even slimmer chance of it.
Looking from a purely materialist viewpoint, where we see only in terms of natural reactions among particles, there has not been proof of a god, just as there has not been proof of the teapot.

 

The focus on the christian (or abrahamic) god is an unfortunate one. The difference between athiest and christians is that christians reject one less prophet. Joseph Smith, Mohammed, David Koresh, Jim Jones, the Bahá'u'lláh, Nanak and L. Ron Hubbard are all deluded at best and con-artists at worst.

As an athiest I would include Paul of Tarsus on that list, while christians are happy to accept the word of a balding epileptic greek torturer.

As for what lies beyond the big bang, what processes led to the existense of our universe - I dont know. I have faith that the scientific progress of humanity is our best hope of finding an answer. I also have 100% certainty that what we find will bear no resemblance to any of the gods human culture has managed to amass.

 

Isn't this debate supposed to about the existence of God, why does the subject of Jesus keep coming up? Well, try to get back on topic even though you guys (and a little of me) have been arguing about this for 126 pages...

 

Jesus is God.. ever heard of the trinity?

 

I'm not sure where i'm going wrong. He asked why Jesus had kept being brought up, and I answered with truth; Jesus is God.

Plus if someone asks a question and the answer relates to Jesus not God you won't say "Its Jesus but I can't say God because its a God debate".

 

No, you answered with opinion.

 

No, its not an opinion, and like I said earlier, i'm not going to bother arguing with bias and ignorance. So please, for my sake and your's, know what you're talking about.

 

Jesus Christ!

Your Christian fable character, Jesus, is not god. I think some people are trying to broaden the debate from refuting your baffling Christian dogma to discussing a broader concept of god and whether or not something like that would need to exist.

Your god, Jesus Christ, is a story not unlike many other fables used to unite and in some instances control the minds of large populations of people. The story of Jesus is anything but unique. If the bible was written today it's authors would most likely be sued for plagiarism.

All of these "gods" were "in existence" long before your Christian stories came along claiming to be the "word of god":


Attis of Phrygia

--Attis was born on December 25 of the Virgin Nana.
--He was considered the savior who was slain for the salvation of mankind.
--His body as bread was eaten by his worshippers
--His priests were “eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven.”
--He was both the Divine Son and the Father.
--On “Black Friday,” he was crucified on a tree, from which his holy blood ran down to redeem the earth.
--He descended into the underworld.
--After three days, Attis was resurrected on March 25 (as tradition held of Jesus) as the “Most High God.


Dionysus/Bacchus

--Dionysus was born of a virgin on December 25 and, as the Holy Child, was placed in a manger.
--He was a traveling teacher who performed miracles.
--He “rode in a triumphal procession on an ass.”
--He was a sacred king killed and eaten in an eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification.
--Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25.
--He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine.
--He was called “King of Kings” and “God of Gods.”
--He was considered the “Only Begotten Son,” Savior,” “Redeemer,” “Sin Bearer,” Anointed One,” and the “Alpha and Omega.”
--He was identified with the Ram or Lamb.
--His sacrificial title of “Dendrites” or “Young Man of the Tree” intimates he was hung on a tree or crucified.


Horus/Osiris of Egypt

--Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Merion December 25 in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.
--His earthly father was named “Seb” (“Joseph”).
--He was of royal descent.
--At at 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized having disappeared for 18 years.
--Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana (Jordan) by “Anup the Baptizer” (“John the Baptist”), who was decapitated.
--He had 12 desciples, two of who were his “witnesses” and were named “Anup” and “Aan” (the two “Johns”).
--He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus (“El-Osiris”), from the dead.
--Horus walked on water.
--His personal epithet was “Iusa,” the “ever-becoming son” of “Ptah,” the “Father.” He was thus called “Holy Child.”
--He delivered a “Sermon on the Mount” and his followers recounted the “Sayings of Iusa.”
--Horus was transfigured on the Mount.
--He was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and resurrected.
--He was also the “Way, the Truth, the Light,” “Messiah,” “God’s Anointed Son,” “the “Son of Man,” the “Good Shepherd,” the “Lamb of God,” the “Word made flesh,” the “Word of Truth,” etc.
--He was “the Fisher” and was associated with the Fish (“Ichthys”), Lamb and Lion.
--He came to fulfill the Law.
--Horus was called “the KRST,” or “Anointed One.”
--Like Jesus, “Horus was supposed to reign one thousand years.”


Krishna of India

--Krishna was born of the Virgin Devaki (“Divine One”) on December 25.
--His earthly father was a carpenter, who was off in the city paying tax while Krishna was born.
--His birth was signaled by a star in the east and attended by angels and shepherds, at which time he was presented with spices.
--The heavenly hosts danced and sang at his birth.
--He was persecuted by a tyrant who ordered the slaughter of thousands of infants.
--Krishna was anointed on the head with oil by a woman whom he healed.
--He is depicted as having his foot on the head of a serpent.
--He worked miracles and wonders, raising the dead and healing lepers, the deaf and the blind.
--Krishna used parables to teach the people about charity and love, and he “lived poor and he loved the poor.”
--He castigated the clergy, charging them with “ambition and hypocrisy . . . Tradition says he fell victim to their vengeance.”
--Krishna’s “beloved disciple” was Arjuina or Ar-jouan (Jouhn).
--He was transfigured in front of his disciples.
--He gave his disciples the ability to work miracles.
--His path was “strewn with branches.”
--In some traditions he died on a tree or was crucified between two thieves.
--Krishna was killed around the age of 30, and the sun darkened at his death.
--He rose from the dead and ascended to heaven “in the sight of all men.”
--He was depicted on a cross with nail-holes in his feet, as well as having a heart emblem on his clothing.
--Krishna is the “lion of the tribe of Saki.”
--He was called the “Shepherd of God” and considered the “Redeemer,” “Firstborn,” “Sin-Bearer,” “Liberator,” “Universal Word.”
--He was deemed the “Son of God” and “our Lord and Savior,” who came to earth to die for man’s salvation.
--He was the second person of the Trinity.
--His disciples purportedly bestowed upon him the title “Jezeus,” or “Jeseus,” meaning “pure essence.”


Mithra of Persia

--Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25 in a cave, and his birth was attended by shepherds bearing gifts.
--He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
--He had 12 companions or disciples.
--Mithra’s followers were promised immortality.
--He performed miracles.
--As the “great bull of the Sun,” Mithra sacrificed himself for world peace.
--He was buried in atomb and after three days rose again.
--His resurrection was celebrated every year.
--He was called “the Good Shepherd” and identified with both the Lamb and the Lion.
--He was considered the “Way, the Truth and the Light,” and the “Logos,” [Word] “Redeemer,” “Savior” and “Messiah.”
--His sacred day was Sunday, the “Lord’s Day,” hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
--Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter.
--His religion had a eucharist or “Lord’s Supper,” at which Mithra said, “He who shall nto eat of my body nor drink of my blood so that he may be one with me and I with him, shall not be saved.”
--“His annual sacrifice is the Passover of the Magi, a symbolical atonement of pledge of moral and physical regeneration.”



Just stating Jesus is God is less than meaningless. Look up each of these other gods and tell me your whole foundation of beliefs is not built on a cobbled together collage of various failed ancient religions. If there is a god, a am fairly confident that Jesus is not him.

 

Ah, yes! The great WIKI knows all!

 

Ignorant- lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified

You do not know how much I know.

Hypocrisy- a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not

You go on and on about ignorance.

"A primary source is a document, speech, or other sort of evidence written, created or otherwise produced during the time under study. Primary sources offer an inside view of a particular event. "

This is the most reliable source. During what you attempted to disprove, there was no wikipedia.

 

We can conceptualize perfection, but only in a limited way since we have never witnessed real perfection. So technically, all perfection that we perceive is subjective since it is all in the eye of the beholder. Also, since God is the only thing that is perfect if there is true perfection, then it would be still impossible for us to know perfection because we have never actually seen God.

 

So you are saying we cannot understand something because we have not seen it? We cannot even conceive the true idea, but we have to rely that it is real? That there is something that is perfect?

If I was a perfect basketball player, every time I shot, it would be a perfect shot, or else I would not be perfect.

If God is perfect, than why aren't his creations perfect? The world is definitely not perfect. Thus, God cannot be perfect. Therefore, he is equal to other imperfect entities. Meaning, he is not god.

 

Maybe he gave his creation the choice between perfection and imperfection, and made the wrong choice.

Besides you always say perfection is subjective, so your points cancel each other out...

 

Exactly, we can envision perfection in an example like that. But what does it mean to be completely perfect? It means you do everything perfectly; but do you know how everything is done perfectly (things like drawing, dancing, writing, creating)? No, so you can't fully visualize complete perfection. That was what I was saying; I never said we couldn't understand anything because we've never seen it. Never mind though, this point was kinda bad and it serves no purpose since:

And I agree with that last part; I was saying if God was hypothetically perfect. Notice I said he is the only perfect being if there is true complete perfection.

 

Still, you cannot judge what I know based off of one sentence, but I'll let it be a fair statement.

I cannot be hypocrite because everything that post contained was fact.


BTW, I actually never read Nitrous's post. Believe me or not.

 

Yes, I have, but that aspect of God is irrelevant to the argument about his existence. This is a conceptual argument as to whether some higher being could or does exist. As well the argument of Jesus is God only applies to Christianity and this argument is generalized to the existence of any god.

 

Well, I am definitely exist. Therefore, I am rather good at existing. You either exist or you don't. There is no midpoint. 2 options...

As I said, there are only two options.
Existing and not existing.

According to what you say, if something does not exist, it is imperfect at existing. If it does exist, it is perfect.

I exist. I must be a perfect being. Therefore, I am God.

Hold on. I know I am not God because everything exists.The computer I am using, therefore it must be God. My **** exists therefore it must be God. Well, if everything (meaning everything that exists) is God, then we are all equal. This means the term "God" has no value because nothing can be described as God.

Let's take it back to where I say I am perfect. You must know that I am not perfect nor is anyone, but I do exist. How can you be perfect at existing other than exist?

1. If God is perfect at existing, then I am perfect also which makes God equal to me making him no god. God does not exist.
2. If I am imperfect at existing (I still exist) then God must be imperfect at existing. According to you a imperfect God is nonexistent. God does not exist.