If according to my previous statements matter cannot exist eternally then it supports the claim of a God. The big bang says matter is eternal. Therefore, eternal matter and an eternal God cannot co-exist.
Then I guess there must no be an eternal god. By the way, can't you just look at matter as being another dimension? If we temporarily assume that time is just another dimension, similar to the 3 that we perceive as being nonlinear, everything makes sense. The universe would, in that case, have a completely logical beginning and end, just as it has a completely logical width, length, and height. Now let's look at the big bang. First, what would happen if all of the particles currently forming 'you' managed to travel faster than the expansion rate of the universe and managed to go past the edge of the universe. Simply put, we can now assume that the universe is larger. The same goes for time- if you manage to go all the way back to before the big bang, time would now have existed for longer. The difference between the two ideas is that time is constantly moving forward at varying rates, while the other three dimensions are moving freely. Sorry if anything I'm saying is a little off- it's late and the Wikipedia article on spacetime is really complicated...
By the way aMoeba, your arguments for god existing because time can't be infinite don't prove your god. They prove that something made the universe- for all we know, it could be Mickey Mouse, or it could just have vanished after creating the universe, or it could not be sentient at all. Even if I was to say that something had to create the universe (which I won't, I will never believe in a god of the gaps), it still would be no reason for you to believe in your specific god. The quote in your signature is awesome
Well it may not hint directly at the specific God I believe in but it sure does support the possibility of it. Thanks
I've just thought of this. Live your life as if there was no heaven, meaning that you live a good great life because that is all you have. When you die you will have lived your fullest, and if there is a heaven then you will not be punished for living a good life. What kind of god would punish your for living a good life, not the kind of god I would want to live in eternity with.
Depends on what you define as "great" or good. Its quite different with Christians really, we see it as an opportunity to get people saved, then we get our reward in heaven, because heaven is so much better than earth, and its so much longer. To a Christian, our reward isn't partying on earth, its partying in heaven and labor on earth (not ALL labor).
Jesus died on a cross for everybody and took in all the sin everybody that has, is, or will existed. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only son so that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting light. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him" - John 3:16-17 You can't get to Heaven through living a good life or through works. "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" -Romans 3:23 Since we have fallen short of the glory of God, we cannot get into heaven except through his Son, Jesus. When Christ died he was between two criminals. The one on his left asked him to accept him when he went to heaven, the one on his right mocked him. From a frontal view, you see Jesus in the middle and the saved man on his left (out right) and a lost person on his right (our left). If you were to look at it closer, You would notice Jesus is separating the two men and that he separates man from God and you can only get to Him through Jesus. It's not that my God is a cruel god, It's that he loves us so much, that he gave his only son. Unless you're a father, you can only imagine how hard that would be to do. If you have a cat or a dog or a pet that you've had for your whole life, could you imagine watching them die is the most cruel and horrible way after being beaten, mocked, and wipped so that their blood lie in puddles everywhere and it has many open wounds? All this so everybody in the world *might* be saved from eternal suffering? It would be insainly difficult wouldn't it? He also loves you so much that he lets you make your own choices whether they're good or bad. If you life to see the Rapture of the church, I pray you won't take long to realise what happened. A man will be "thrust" into power and will appear as a pacifist, but will be anything but. I pray it won't take this to convince you of God and Jesus, but if it does, you'll have to endour 7 years of pure hell that gets worse and worse over time.
What does any of this add to the argument? Reciting your own beliefs doesn't help- you are expected to give some kind of argument, theoretical or physical proof, for or against god.
It can't vanish, because it is outside of time, time is a measure of change and if he is outside, he would never change. Ending existence is change. Our specific God is the only one with archeological evidence, multiple witnesses, outside historical documents, methodology and facts supporting it. I can't remember which book it was, [I'll look it up for you]. It stated at the beginning, "Jesus' resurrection is the single most provable fact in all of existence." I was like, "Yeh, uh-hu, this should be funny." He proved it though. Jesus' resurrection IS the most provable fact in all of history. I was amazed, and you will be too. So decide...was he buried alive and somehow managed to get out of his cloth caccoon and move a giant bolder after three days without food water and oxygen, or was he God? You could come up with many alternatives to his deity, but I was pretty convinced at the end of that book that he was God.
But isn't there a slight advantage if you were Christian. Like wouln't you want to be Christain just in case there is a heaven and all of it is true. That is what I don't get with some atheists. If there isn't a heaven and stuff, well guess what that doesn't affect me in any way. If you lived a good life and to the fullest, I gues you mean that you lived a good Christain life, yes you should go to heaven. I am trying to understand what you mean.
If there isnt heaven, then I know I didnt waste my life trying to appease a magical spirit that was never there. And if there is a heaven, I will know I lived my life as I wanted, and not how someone else wanted me to. If anything, an advantage to Atheism is that it promotes free thinking. Not that that is why I am an Atheist or anything, but that is definitely something good about Atheism... Also, if you are a christian just because you want an easy pass into heaven, then you aren't really Christian in my eyes... not if you are just in it to save your own ass.
Pascal's wager doesn't work, it isn't simply a matter Jehovah or no God, there are countless other religions. Hindu's could be right, Buddhists could be right, Egyptians could be right, Voodoo's could be right. Most of those are older than the abrahamic religions.
Well ya, obviously you can not call yourself a Christian if you are not a Christian. And you say living your life as A christian is a waste? I am not wasting any part of my life being a Christain. As a Christian you can think freely? I dont get what you are trying to say about it. Can explain a bit more?
I bolded each part Im referencing: 1) The first bolded line, I meant that if you are a follower of Christianity solely so that you get into heaven, and not to believe in Jesus and follow a Christian lifestyle, then you aren't a real christian imo. 2) When I said that, I meant that if there is no heaven, it'd have been a waste to be a christian because you lived your life praying to and following something that never existed. Obviously, that can be turned around the other way, but when I then said that I lived my life the way I want to, I mean that as a Christian, or follower of any religion/cult/belief system, you are supposed to follow a way of life. I don't mean by free thinking that you don't live your life your way, but that you are in some way supposed to do things according to Jesus and God, in order to help you get into heaven. In a way, that is taking away part of your ability to do things how you want. I am not the best at explaining that, but that's how I'd say it in the rushed time I am replying lol...
He meant the opposite. The lives of Christians are constrained by their beliefs, while atheists can do whatever. I cannot find a single source that defines time as 'the measure of change.' I would still like to see some evidence for the existence of the Christian god that is unambiguous and straightforward. By the way, Christianity is the same as any other religion when it comes to evidence, witnesses, historical documents, methodology, and factuality. Give me some kind of citation, source, or summary and I will be happy to refute it.
1) I agree 100% on this. You can not fake God. You can not call yourself a Christian and think that you can go to heaven. It does not work that way. You have to except him into your help and be sorry for your sins. 2) If God ends up not existing, I do not see all the times I have prayed or gone to church a waste. Church is not 100% boring and study of the bible. The church I go to has amazing music that is Christian. It sounds just like normal music except it has a different meaning then other songs. Church also deals with toug times with people in there life. There will be weeks with titles of what they are going to teach about. They will teach a story and give the meaning simultaneously. I love being at church for three reasons: Worshiping God, learning about God, and having a good time. If none of these beliefs existed, its ok, I don't regret any of it. I enjoyed what I did in my life. I lived a pure life, I have a cleaner heart, sometimes it can be hard for me to insult people because of it. I see that as an advantage more then a disadvatage. 3) There isn't much difference when it comes to "free thinking" with aethism and christianity. I can think anything I want to right now and so can aetheists. I can think something wrong as long as I ask for forgiveness.
The fact is that religion promotes close-mindedness. That's how it succeeds. It makes up facts and indoctrinates you as a child, and then encourages you not to ask 'why?', so you won't realize all of the problems with your beliefs. It might not be that religion causes close-mindedness, but that open-minded people are the most likely to realize that everything they believe is made up and become atheists. I would much rather spend time with friends or playing games than sitting in a church. Another thing about religion is that it promotes a blind belief in following orders. Out of all of my friends, there is pretty much a direct correlation between how religious they are and how much work they do each night. I for one have realized that taking loads of AP courses in high school may be good, but I would much rather take less, and have more free time to be happy and do what I want- what else is there in life except being happy? I know that I'm not presenting any kind of evidence here, because there aren't any kind of demographic that compares happiness and religion.