Debate God

The confirmation being referred to there was done by the Catholic church itself, and the article goes further to state that out of all the millions of visits to Lourdes daily, you would statistically expect more than 66 instances of spontaneous remission.

 

God also gave us up for our desires. Did you not read the passage he stated?

@Ladnil: Doesn't matter, same God. What did I tell you, no matter what, it would be refuted. God doesn't bend on statistics, i'll have you know. Miracles are performed by the person's faith. If I have no hope that God will save me, then why should He even bother?

 

Edit: Ladnil got to it before me. Anyways, below is the quote.

66 miracles have been confirmed by the Catholic Church, which I doubt is a trustworthy source.
Besides, if you read the paragraph below, you would see that it doesn't really prove anything at all. Here is the entire context:

 

Correct me if i'm wrong. Time is the change of matter. If we could make infinitely small particles (by breath) we changed matter. If time is change in matter, did we then create time?

 

I'm going to repeat it with different words to see if you might be able to grasp what statistics mean.

Sometimes people randomly recover and nobody knows exactly why. That random recovery is called spontaneous remission. The Catholic church has claimed to have cured only 66 people in 150 years. Based on how many people we see experience spontaneous remission for no reason, we would expect more than 66 visitors to Lourdes to spontaneously recover. The fact that the church's claimed success rate is lower than the success rate when doing nothing means there is no benefit to Lourdes.

 

In your last statement, are you using the word timeline as a metaphor or literally?

No matter the statistics, if I did my homework, I wouldn't have to do it again to prove I did it.

 

Because they can be proven by facts.

 

The only reason I had used homework is because i'm trying to finish my own.

By saying you go down different timelines, what are these all built on? Since you meant it literally, of course. If I throw a rock through my window, I go down a different timeline than I would if I didn't. This timeline would include my parents yelling at me, most likely. Now, how did time begin? If it didn't begin, why do we refer to it? I'm not sure how literal you meant that statement to be. If we go down different timelines, timelines could then be created, because I could have never thrown a rock throw the window in the first place. Or, are timelines pre-created? If that, then how?

I hope I know what i'm talking about here. If I don't, feel free to flame me on this one

 

But the Bible is God's word. If we don't need to know God's plan, then what's with all the praying and stuff? What if God's plan doesn't provide a Heaven?

And good gravy, I had a response earlier but I had to eat dinner and I deleted it. Grr.
Anyway: I don't get where this "Time is the change in matter" comes from. Time only measures existence according to an arbitrary standard set by the users of the timekeeping system. In other words, time is just a way to see how long things have been around. You can't quantify change by using time.

 

But we do know God has heaven for us. That he has told. God has many plans, and it was tough answering which in particular, but I had assumed (it being the most familiar) it was the apocalyptic plan.

Good point. However, if no matter is changed for a minute, has time kept going? If the universe paused, is time paused? Think about it.

And to your signature's question (this has very much to do with God imo) you must first decide whether morality is subjective or objective.

 

But you said before that we don't know God's plan. Am I mistaken? And wait, you said you know God has Heaven in store, yet you are assuming he's going with plan Apocalypse?

The fact that matter changes is due to factors other than time. If we could exist without matter changing, then we'd still have time regardless. They're independent of each other.

 

Hmm. The term God's plan is very vague. Like saying my plan. What is my plan?

Your statement is almost a loophole, at least for me. Some things we know about God, some things we don't. Plan apocalypse is just one thing he will do. Not everybody has a plan to go eat dinner then just end their life. I'm not going to be answering any more questions on God's thoughts and plans, for I am not God.

 

I have to go to bed in 30 minutes, so I will just make you think about this for a second. Go back to before religion ever existed. Back to the ****-erectus, and the beginning of man. Someone dearly close; like a longtime wife/girlfriend, or a family member whom you had fond memories of has recently become deceased. Now, you have little knowledge of science, and aren't sure how to feel. You start to make things up about an afterlife. This way you can comfort yourself thinking that maybe it wasn't the last time you will see that person. You don't WANT to believe that you will never "experience" the feeling of being around that person again. You begin to share this sense of hope with others. However, it begins to spread. Things like droubts, the sun rising and falling, and many other things are beginning to be explained by this "higher power". The rest is history, until the last couple hunder uears or so, maybe more. We began to find out more and more about science, and no longer needed a shield of hope to protect us from ignorance. However, there is still one gray area, which is death. No matter how many medical, or technological advances that we make, none of them will lead to a relative explaination of what happens after we die. This is why there is still religion today, though it should have been a phase in human development (as a race) long out-lived. If we go back, even the fact that it was made up makes sense. There really is no "god" just people trying to get through life the best way that time will let them. It;s time to move on from sensless devotion to a higher power. Think of all of the violence that could've been prevented by just being a little apathetic when someone offends your god, or dishonors your holy grounds. Israel alone, in it's history has seen more wars than any other nation in the world. I dont think the fact that it is the center of 3 major religions is just a coincidence.
Sure, it feels better to think that you can see your loved ones again, but at what cost?

Hmm, it would seem i didn't come prepared with a closing statement. I really didn't plan on writing this much. Uhhh... thats how the cookie crumbles??? *walks away*

 

If i'm not mistaken, Christianity has been around much longer than Evolution. Not to say that makes it right, but it'd only be logical than that evolution COULD have been used as an explanation for things. Plus, you can't argue against God and creation by using evolution. Its impossible. In order to do that you must prove evolution.

 

God and evolution are two independent nouns. Creation and evolution can be coexistent, but with a heavy re-assessment of traditional Catholic doctrine. Creationism and evolution are completely and utterly exclusive; there is either one, or the other. So you can't argue against God using evolution, but you can argue against Creation/ism with it.
And evolution can't be proven. Scientific theories are never PROVEN, only proved to be false. But there is immense evidence to support the theory of evolution, and it would be a mistake to dismiss it.

 

I never said nothing could exist forever. I said time matter and space could not. This part of the argument, the part saying time, matter and space have a beginning is comprehensible by a toddler. Starting from there, you have a choice:

Either everything came from nothing (impossible)

OR

Something always existed and created it all

There really is not another choice. Make yours.