Yes. I wouldn't know, i'd have to experience it. Not to say you have to experience something to believe it, but I honestly wouldn't know. If someone told me about Christianity, I probably would. See, my mother was born into a family of atheists. She's not an atheist anymore.
Yes, evolution is random on a small scale, but people misinterperet this to mean that if every mutation has, say a 25% chance to turn out favorable, and if there are 10,000 mutations, then we must make the correct mutation every time for 10,000 times to turn out correct. (I think this would be a [0.25^10,000]% chance, right?) On a larger scale, however, it isn't random. The evolution of the eye is a good example- it's estimated to have evolved 40 different times. It didn't evolve by sheer chance: it is an effective method of survival, so most animals evolved it. If evolution was random, we would never see organs as complex as the eye form independently.
So why do so many groups try to predict it? Or for that matter why are so many end-times adherents trying to actively bring it about?
The best analogy is to roll some dice until you get 100 of the number 6. Sure, every time you got a 6 it was completely random, but you just kept throwing away everything that wasn't the number 6. That is how evolution works, every chance event that is beneficial is kept, and the others are thrown away. The time it will take is variable, but whether it happens is not, it will happen.
Why is it that something like Evolution has scientific evidence backing it up, and Christians and people of other faiths still try to challenge it? Along with anything that would suggest that there isn't a God, they completely ignore and avoid. I would really like to see a Christian answer things with fact and proof, rather than, "Oh, well if you don't have faith then you are going to Hell."
Because they have never read the verses that state that. There will always be the few who disagree with what it actually says, and take it far too literally. @Chaotic: Wouldn't it only make sense to challenge it, considering Christianity is more than 2000 years old and the theory of evolution is only 200 years old? Of course there will be people who rebel it. And don't make generalizations like " along with anything that would suggest there isn't a God.. they completely ignore and avoid". Plus, you never asked a question. Do you expect an answer?
Old Your logic is that because Christianity is 10 times older than the theory of evolution it is somehow stronger or more proven. Let's extrapolate your logic. Clearly you think that older means better. The great minds of the era when the bible was written believed that the earth was flat, they didn't know that the lights in the sky were other suns, and let's not even get started on their health care capabilities. Because they knew much, much less about the reality of their universe, Christianity makes perfect sense as something they would come up with to explain things. If you were diagnosed with a serious illness would you feel good about requesting that your doctor only use 2000 year old medical technology to treat you? If not, then why are you so absolutely positive that they had the afterlife and the origins of the universe figured out? You can give your own answer, but mine is: upbringing. You accept whatever reality you are presented with as a child. If you had been born in the heart of Bagdad I am sure you would currently be a Muslim. By no fault of your own you tend to believe what your parents tell you to be the truth. Some people are able to break away from these ancient dogmas with the use of logic, reason, and exposure to science. Some will never sway, because it is too painful to realize or admit that everything they and their families believe so deeply may just be an outdated, incorrect guess. You "randomly made up" your own interpretation of God's will. I think this is actually a rather healthy attitude. You should believe what feels right to you, not because it is in a book and people have preached it for a long time. This also brings up the possibility that sections or even the whole of the bible was "randomly made up" as well. If you did it in this thread, the odds of a Christian reading your made up point about Christianity, believing it, and quoting you in the future are actually pretty likely. Religious ideas can be and have been spread not unlike a massive game of telephone, misquoting, re-interpreting, and fabricating as they go. Have you really given the other religions a fair shake? It's just like sports team loyalties. They tend to be mainly geographical. What are the odds you will be a St. Louis Cardinals fan if you grew up in Seattle? Very, very slim. Your religious loyalties are geographical, and family oriented. Don't pretend like you studied every religion on earth comparing the pros and cons and decided to go with Christianity. You are a Christian because one or both of your parents were Christian. It is unfair to expect a child born in a totally different environment then you were with no exposure to Christianity to accept Jesus and be saved. You think a huge portion of the world will burn for all eternity because they are different than you. It is so much worse but no less mindlessly loyal than a "Screw your team, my team rules!" attitude.
If there really is a god...who is supposedly all knowing and the reason everything happens.....Why he decide we have to go to war? Why did he decide that Hitler had to kill all those people who worshiped differently? Why did he decide that great leaders had to be assassinated? Why did he decide to make Insane an Admin? Why did he decide to have TDF banned? Why did he decide that Frankie had to leave Bungie? It's simple. THERE IS NO GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If christianity beats evolution because it is older, then I guess Judaism beats christianity and hinduism beats judaism. Quick, lets all become hindus
You're taking this way out of context. I said that because Christianity is older there will be conflict between the two beliefs, not that it is right because it is older. Again, you're taking this out of context. All I did was make a random guess. I don't live by it or try to preach it, I only said it to prove that I have no idea what God's will is. Yes, I have. And who are you to judge? @InnerSandman13: The world is in a fallen state. I have stated so many posts before that God will not make us do anything. He lets us do what he likes. In the end, there will be judgment, though. @Sheogorath: Don't know. @barc0de: Read the reply to makisupa. (Gone for the weekend)
Why do the people debating for god always make a half ass reply like this and just leave? He had plenty more to say than taking your post out of context along with some interesting points. "Yes, I have. And who are you to judge?" well you are in a debate thread, somewhat expected.
He is an idiot, but but you can't kick him out. He's an idiot. First, let me explain to you my views. I believe that there are no gods. War is a creation of man. Humans have free will. IF there is a god or gods, he wouldn't control people and make them kill millions of people as Hitler did. However, why would a god let this happen? Remember my belief. Great leaders? How can you compare WWII to an assassination of a single person? Then your following points are simply ridiculous.
Weak Well, I'll repost exactly what you said. You are clearly saying that challenging evolution makes sense because it has only been around a mere 200 years while Christianity is over 2000 years old. If you claim to not be assigning any superiority based on age to Christianity, then how does one being older than the other have any bearing on challenging the scientific evidence of evolution? Furthermore, I would argue that in general, newer is better. Updated is better. And, flexible is better. When trying to figure out if something is bullshit or not, I always ask myself "How long has it been around, and how much has it changed?" If a human concept has been around for an incredibly long amount of time with little or no change that is not a good sign. As we learn more as a species it is only natural that our concepts should change to include newly discovered information. That is how science works. Ideas are changed constantly as our understanding grows. Religion does not do this. It is stagnant, unchanging, and because of that it is becoming more and more irrelevant. I did not take anything out of context. I simply suggested that because you randomly made something up about your god, it is a possibility that others, including the authors of the bible did the same thing. Yes you have what? Who am I to judge what? Overall your reply was short, vague, and did not address the main proposals in my post. Namely: Because the human beings alive 2000 years ago were unaware of so many truths about our universe, why do you believe so strongly that they had a full understanding of the afterlife and the creation of the universe? You wouldn't request that a dentist use 2,000 year old technology to perform your root canal. You wouldn't use a 2,000 year old science book to try and pass a college preparatory exam. You wouldn't use 2,000 year old tools to try and fix your car. So why are you using 2,000 year old beliefs to guide your spirituality? Would you agree that the main influences on peoples religious affiliations are geography and family? Do you think that it is right to condemn a person that was born into a completely different environment from yourself to hell just because he or she picked the "wrong" religion even though it was simply the religion that the persons family and friends believed in?
genesis 6:15 "And this is how you shall make it: the length of the ark shall be 300 hundred cubits, its width fifty cubits, and its height 30 cubits." In case you don't know, a cubit is an ancient measure of length. The measure being the length of your arm. (In Egypt the standard size was the pharaohs arm.) Since everybodys arm is different, Noah couldn't have had any help in building his ark otherwise it wouldn't have turned out seaworthy. (assuming he is using his own arm length though its not unrealistic to say that he used the standard.) Though if he did use the standard then I have this back up argument. Genesis 7:20 "The waters prevailed fifteen cubits upward and the mountains were covered." Ok lets think about this statement. A pharaohs cubit according to google is 45.2 CM (Maybe a little longer if you use the end of arm to middle finger measure) so lets see 45.2 times 15 = 678 cm two decimals over = 6.78 M 6.78m of water will not cover mountains. (It will barley cover three of my neighborhood houses if you stack them together.) So yeah........
Ok then, (Translation issues are a problem in and of themselves) Either way maybe I'm not reading this part right but how does that cover the issue you pointed out of the ark not rising? And thats sort of what I thought it meant but it kind of worded it like the water covered the mountains themselves. *Thinks* oh, it means that the waters reached the mountains to a height of 6.78 meters on top of the water already covering the earth doesn't it? Well, ok fine ya got me. On the subject of logic though, it would seem to me that simply telling people your a servant of the lord will for many give you automatic rights to spirit their daughter off to distant lands under the promise that they will marry somebody who has a connection to god. (I know its not THAT simple but still while reading I was a bit shocked at peoples lack of skepticism. I'm only nearing the end of genesis so far, so I'm not including people who had to work for their wives. ) Is there a verse I missed detailing that theres a way to identify those who "walk with the lord" by mere surface examination or are people just that trusting? (Yes, this is a genuine question)
The following is my responses to those questions and answers. 1. This is a good question, but I would like to ask something else along the same lines. If there is a god, how do we know that said god loves us? Back to the question, your answers basically tells me that I should just accept it as true. I understand that is what faith is, but I have no faith. Why should I accept it? 2. Your idea comes from the Bible, right, saying that God cannot sin. Sinning is basically doing something wrong or considered wrong, but you say it is defying god. So, there is an all-powerful being that cannot do anything because doing something wrong would be defying the rules he made. Therefore, we should all listen to these rules? That is where you lose me. Why should I listen to these rules. If something I do does not directly harm me or someone else somehow, why would it be a sin. Example, homosexuality. According to the Bible. They should be slaughtered. What a loving god! They will be damned to hell for such things. According to other parts of the Bible, everyone is god's children. According to the Bible, Jesus, who is also god, says love one another. God is defying himself because god has ordered deaths. Why would you kill someone to show love? God defies himself.Therefore, he is not perfect, and I should not follow any such rules he makes. 3. If there is a master plan, then He already knows what will happen, correct? If god knows that someone will 'sin' and ultimately be damned to hell, why won't he help them? 4. Let's say Mr.C is my leader. I ask Mr.C for his plan, but he doesn't tell me. Why should I just follow along not knowing what will happen? 5-6. Why would he plan for someone to defy him? A single word throws off your entire argument. "Maybe". You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, do you? 7. He meant Noah. Religion does cause war. Since man began having beliefs, we have been fighting over what's right and wrong. How can you explain the million plus deaths from the crusades? WWII? Hitler ordered the death of 6 million solely based on religious views. About parent belief, who were the first people to teach you to be a Christian. If your parents were My parents are christian. I am atheist. Really? Are we arguing Noah's ark. That is the one of the most well believed fairy-tales know to man. It is simply impossible. There are at least 2 million species of animals in the world. How could one boat carry all of this? Why is there no proof of a storm that covered the entire world? The rainiest city in America is Mobile. It receives about 67 inches of rain per year. Mount Everest, the highest point on earth, is 20,029 ft or about 240,000 in. above sea level. If it would rain a large amount, it would naturally move to the lowest level, which is 0 sea level. Let's start there. According to this, it would take Mobile 3587 years or about 1.3 million days to accumulate that much rain fall. You are saying it took 40 days or about .00003 of the time I suggested. For the water to raise about 240,000 inches in do days, it would have to rise 6000 inches per day, 250 inches per hour, 4 inches per second. In order for the earth to flood, the water would have to wrap around its circumference. Earth's area is about 510 million sq miles or about 14000000000000000 sq feet. To raise one foot it would take 14000000000000000 ft^3 or 1050000000000000 gallons. It would have to take 3 seconds for the water to raise a foot. A gallon of water weighs about 8 pounds. That means about 85000000000000000 pounds of water would fall on the earth every 3 seconds. The ark would take on over 2 million pounds over water per second. How could wood handle this? Let's say a person is 6 cubic feet (being nice). Noah would take on 116 pounds of water per second! What a joke!
My next point on the matter after thinking for a few more seconds was going to be the size of Noah's ark itself. The ark has a length of about 135.60m A width of 22.60m and a height of 13.56m. Now this means that the volume of Noah's ark is m now, disregarding the time it would take to build such a beast. (he has a hundred years, he can do it in that time I'm sure.) Exactly 41555.4336m is the volume of noahs ark. for reference thats about 41 kilometers of volume. (26 miles for those using the english system.) now this is a three decked ship. meaning that if we divide it into three layers (The first deck being outside and thus not falling under this measuremeant.) Each deck is about 6.78m in height (The point I'm getting at is this thing is pretty darn big.) But now, I have no idea how strong gopherwood is. But I would think that so much stomping around from larger mammals would break through the ship after forty days and nights of stormy terror how does noah fix these leaks?. Also, noah has to collect animals from all over the world to save them from this flood. Now, I don't know how long it took noah to build his immensly huge ark. lets just say it took the poor guy fifty years.(this is ignoring all that food god told noah to gather. That could have taken a while or it could have been totally easy. Depends where our hero noah lives.) So noah has 18250 days too do this. According to wiki answers the earth is approximatley 508 million square kilometers. This means that noah would have to walk 27835 kilometers a day too cover the entire world (And thats assuming he can magically walk over water too.) Unless noah is the flash I doubt this can be justified. Hell you can't even go that speed if god granted noah the fastest car currently available in the world id bet. (Once again, that goes over water) Seriously, its just not possible. Heck just for SaG lets cut out the time it took noah to build his ark and see how much he has to walk a day if he has a hundred years. 27835/2 = 13917.5 km still not possible if you ask me. (I'm not referring to around the world, I mean visiting every part of it to snag two of every species.)