Discuhraimer: I love Foundry, I love Forging and I will be buying Mythic as soon as it hits Marketplace. This thread is about not losing part of our community who won't jump on the mythic bandwagon, and not forgegetting our roots. I know a select few of us have received the Mythic Map Pack. Several people on my friends list I constantly see in HALO 3 - FORGE and I know what map they're on: Sandbox. Supposedly a forger's dream, with a myriad of boxes, walls, and other mapmaking essentials, this promises to be an important tool in the Halo Mapmakers toolbox. But what of the first child, Foundry? Undoubtedly we will see a downswing in the maps created on this forging platform, as Sandbox offers it's three levels of play, new lights, deathballs, and all it's sandy glory. But there will still be people who don't buy the Mythic Map pack, either due to lack of funds or a desire to inherit the whole shebang when ODST drops this fall. So we will still see maps on our gray and green warehouse. Why should we not skip over them and keep clicking on the newer Sandbox designs? That is what this thread is for: Listing the reasons not to abandon Foundry, so we can have a more rounded Halo Forgastic experience. I don't claim to be all knowing, if you have ideas on why we should stick to our human metal boxes as opposed to the Forerunner's tan ones, feel free to post. Convincing arguments will be added to this first post, with credit given where needed. 1: Budget Foundry's budget is $700, and checking the Sandbox Toolkit reveals the expense of items such as base-marking red or blue lights, killballs, lighting effects and the overall increased expense of items, resulting in a bigger debt than America (O SNAP). What does that mean? It means that even though Sandbox will have more options, it will be harder to take advantage of all of those options within the "soft" cap of the budget. People will undoubtedly say that they can just budget glitch the map, but Bungie has said that user-made budget glitched maps will not be in any playlist. Also, some of these maps are noticeably laggy, with objects spazzing out at near-siezurific frequencies. 2: Object Limit Bungie has now given the details to the hard limit of objects some people have been hitting in foundry on particularly ambitious maps. 640 objects, minus the amount on the map. Bunie brought this up not at the request of Forgers like ourselves, but because playtesters had been bumping the invisible limit. If playtesters, with no problems on Foundry are easily hitting the object cap, it is apparent that we will too. Foundry, being relatively simpler has less objects already on the map, and therefore more room to expand. 3: On-map Geometry We love Sandbox for being a blank slate, but at the same time, we have embraced some of Foundry's so-called imperfections. The natural U shape lends itself well to easy bases, the back hallways create daunting corridors which we have only to move a couple doors to access, and we've seen creative uses of the cranes, as annoying as they can sometimes be. But Sandbox can be wiped clean, and any geometry we put on will need to be built by the hand of a forger. Sometimes we take advantage of these shortcuts, but we take them for granted, so never forget where you came from. 4: General Aesthetic (thanks to Bartoge and megathumbs) Foundry looks urban and feels urban due to the skins on the boxes and the generally setting of the map. Sandbox, in the other hand feels more ancient, like a temple or ruin. These different visual styles can contribute to the overall theme of a map, and quite frankly not all maps would work as a temple (i.e. Last Resort), so choosing Foundry over Sandbox could be seen as a specific design choice by the builder to work with a map which more closely matches the urban combat "feel" to the map.
Its a good read, but sandbox's budget is 550 with all default items placed I'm pretty sure. I'll still probably stick to foundry a bit though mainly because I think puzzles will be better there than sandbox.
the thing wrong with this is that Sandboxes budget with the default items already on the map is $550. It has been said by Urk that without anything on the map the full budget is actually $1500 so actually it will be very easy to take advantage of sandbox without hitting the soft cap, unlike what you said in your post
Foundry boasts a thin floor with an accessible underground space which can help tremendously with guiding geo-merges. Furthermore, Foundry's unique floor and the ability to place objects underneath the map (easily) allows movable objects to be merged without the need of supports on every facet. Sandbox may include a similar floor on the Crypt or Main level, so if it does, then ignore the above statement. The Skybox most likely has a similar floor, but it cannot be compared to Foundry's, since the Skybox "floor" is intangible. If this is added, feel free to include any other uses of Foundry's floor, for I cannot think of any others at the moment and I am sure there are many others.
1.) The budget on sandbox is about 1500 from what I hear. Add this reason. Each map has its aesthetic features, like AZN FTW once stated. Foundry offers a boxy, and urban feel for some. You can't get that warehouse/urban feel in sandbox. For this one map Im about to make, I want to make it on Foundry instead of sandbox, because it takes place in a city, which sandbox can not offer that kind of scenery
Sorry, I was looking at the wrong source for the Budget. Assembly caps at $550, not Sandbox. I still feel budget is an important limitation though, as only highly aesthetic maps in Foundry really require glitching.
There will be things that foundry can do that sandbox will never be able to just like theres things that the pre dlc map has that other maps will never have.
sanbox's style will definatly be very deifferent from all other halo maps as well. it will have a different feel than what we are used to. structures will know be temples instead of boxy buildings. and the deathpit well open up a very different style of floating map we haven't seen. the maps up topp on sandbox will have less vertical structures and be more composed of catwlaks and ramps. people will come back to foundry, but when they first relesase the map pack officially, you can expect everyone to be on sandbox
I got the sandbox limit at 1100 i think. I think there will still be many Foundary maps. As said before, Foundary is good with city maps, but Sandbox is good for lage maps, or incredebly tall maps. Sandbox, i think will be used for races, mazes and floating platform maps.
Which do you usually hit first, the OLN or the budget limit? Sandbox was probably made in such a way that maps don't take ages to load, and so that Foundry isn't forgotten forever.
I think that Foundry lends itself better to on-foot combat. Most Mid-Level Sandbox maps will have a hard time justifying their choices if they decide not to put vehicles on the map. (I'm talking about maps that make use of the whole mid-level playspace, not ones that are walled in like this.) Foundry is a map that really works well for pure infantry combat, and I don't think that that will be replaced by Sandbox.
I'm thinking the budget cap, but if you delete all of the original sandbox items, then the item cap.. it is so annoying how much everything costs in sandbox though.. 20 bucks for a light? are you kidding me? and 5 bucks for everything else.. I am going to get sick of these tight catwalk maps in the air, and will probably go back to foundry. sandbox is not really the new foundry.. it kinda sucks forgewise, there is just too many things wrong with what we want to do.. I miss the $3 boxes..