But is it safe to fly?... lol Its not about safe ... its not logical to rule out something your still able to doubt about that is the root of my point.
Rule Out Are you reading any of these posts? No one here is trying to rule out the existence of god. We only want to discuss the likelihood of his existence. Please quote a post where someone is trying to rule out your god.
Look at every one of Nitrous posts before you insult some one...lol and btw I know god exists so the fact of doubt isn't exactly the point is it? It comes down to proof or disproof.
To be fair, Nitrous hardly says definitively that there isn't a God. He just, like me, says that he has seen no evidence or reasoning that there is, and merely questions why others believe, what their evidence or reasoning (in whatever form it comes) is. The point of argument is, as always, to seek to understand the other perspective as best you can so that you have the widest perspective on which to come to your own conclusion. I am, and I think Nitrous is too, not saying that there is no God, we are just saying we see no reason to believe that there definitely is, and just want to know on what basis you hold your own faith. I may dispute the basis you put forth, but that does not mean I am definitively denying the existence of God, just refuting your basis and putting forth my reasoning for why it does not convince me of God's existence as it does for you. The point of discussion is to come with an open mind, to have a desire to understand other perspectives and increase your own, so you can come to your own conclusions. If you don't come with an open mind and an interest in alternate perspectives, there's not much point in coming at all.
Out of curiousity, what would it take to convince someone of the contrary? What does it take to convince someone like yourself to believe in the existence of God? Or rather, what amount of evidence or type of evidence is necesary to place all doubt out of a person's mind?
Hypothetically speaking, do you think people on God's side could be being just as close-minded. This is hypothetical of course...
That is a very interesting question. The only real way to prove God's existence would be to actually see him... highly unlikely. On the other hand, there is no real way to make someone disbelieve in God with solid facts or evidence. And that is why religion will exist forever. So... is there any real reason to continue this debate? Nope. lol
Spun Well, that's the point rusty. With the corner that Christians have backed themselves into, there can virtually be no proof shy of a deafening voice beaming from the sky simultaneously to every place on the planet. Or maybe "Heaven Tours", a tour inside of the pearly gates, a glimpse of what's in store. Or all of our relatives that have passed on could visit us on the same day and tell us "It's all real.....every word of it." I don't wish for the absence of a god, I just don't see any evidence at all, and all of the various religions are filled with bizarre, primitive fairy tale explanations for natural events. I'll listen to any proof at all. Unfortunately, unless there is a rapture coming up, I don't see how any evidence would be big enough to match the tall tale that has be spun. I think it is much harder to convert an atheist into believing than it is to topple the straw house of religion. If the atheist has hit rock bottom on drugs and alcohol you will have a much higher percentage of conversion, though.
That's the other thing, I don't really see why an athiest should have really any morals at all. If I were an athiest, I would be the biggest hedonist as well. Because if there's no afterlife may as well make the most of what you've got.
G043R, G043R, G043R... What am I going to do with you? I hate going through your posts because they don't require me to put a lot of content into them so they're kinda boring. What??? What again??? Name one President that is hardly known. No, wait, name one senator from the U.S. that is hardly known. So a story being shared proves its factually accurate? I'll touch on this later in this post. Just remember, I'm not arguing against the existence of Jesus, just the lack of evidence. And here's that later point in the post. Believing word of mouth means you believe all religions, all myths, and all legends. Which makes you an idolater which is punishable by eternal death. But obviously you don't, that would be ludicrous. So you don't believe every story that is spread by word of mouth but you happen to believe the Jesus story. Why? What makes it special? I have to believe it? Why...exactly? Dude, I'm reading and I have trouble. Your posts take 3x as long to respond to as others, not because of content but because of your crazy writing style. The truth hurts and I'm not being rude for the sake being rude but your grammar and spelling is atrocious. Lol, no. We have video footage and hundreds of thousands of documents relating to Hitler. How unaware of history are you, exactly? I believe he did and I also believe that there is good evidence to support that belief but I can not prove he existed just like I can not prove you exist, though, I have good reasons for believing you do. No he's not. His story is nearly indistinguishable from mythology. Time has not been kind to him. How many historical documents have you ever read pertaining to Jesus outside the bible? One? Possibly two but those are the only two known to exist. Remember, I do believe Jesus existed. They support Jesus was coming, not that he came, and not that he fulfilled any miracles so using the Dead Sea Scrolls to prove Jesus existed is ludicrous. You see god or do you feel him? Two different sensations entirely but still entirely non-convincing. I'm going to bold this and put it in red because I really want you to read this. [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Subjective convictions are meaningless in science, and eyewitness testimony is the least reliable form of evidence. [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]For example, if I go into my front yard and I see a large sauropod walking down the middle of my street, I will of course be quite convinced of what I see. I may be even more satisfied when I follow the thing and find that I can touch it, maybe even ride it if I want to. When I gather sense enough to run back for my camcorder, I may not be able to find the beast again, because I don't know which way it went. But that doesn’t matter because I saw it, I heard it, felt it, smelt it and I remember all that clearly with a sober and rational mind. But somehow I'm the only one who ever noticed it, and of course no one believes me. Some other guy says he saw a dinosaur too, but his description was completely different, such that we can’t both be talking about the same thing. So it doesn't matter how convinced I am that it really happened. It might not have. When days go by and there are still no tracks, no excrement, no destruction, no sign of the beast at all, no other witnesses who’s testimony lends credence to mine, and no explanation for how a 20-meter long dinosaur could just disappear in the suburbs of a major metropolis, much less how it could have appeared there in the first place, -then it becomes much easier to explain how there could be only two witnesses who can’t agree on what they think they saw, than it is to explain all the impossibilities against that dinosaur ever really being there. Positive claims require positive evidence. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and that’s what I’d need –since what I propose isn’t just extraordinary; its impossible. But since there's not one fact I can show that anyone can measure or otherwise confirm, then my perspective is still subjective -and thus uncertain. Eventually, even I, the eyewitness, would have to admit that, although I did see it, I still don’t know if it was ever really there –regardless whether I still believe that it was. [/FONT] Something is possible until its not proven real, you say? So you believe EVERYTHING until its proven to be not real and since nothing in the universe can be absolutely proven not real then you must believe in every god, once again making you an idolater and a person bound for hell. No he doesn't. Whether he exists or not is objective and therefore has to be one or the other. Subjectively you can believe he exists all you want and I may not be able to prove he doesn't exist but that doesn't mean he does. The safest course of action is to be skeptical of everything until someone can show you something has sufficient evidence to believe in. If you weren't you could easily be lured into a cult and possibly pose a threat to society. Sure he may exist but that's no reason to believe in him. It's always a maybe but I feel that you can lean one way or the other. You can be hardcore atheist and still accept the fact the god might exist and a hardcore Christian must believe that he might not exist. Whether you smell or hear that cat does not prove he's alive. It's strong evidence that suggests he is but it doesn't prove it. He is both alive and dead until you open the box and observe the cat. That leads into Quantum Electro-Dynamics which would not be worth while getting into right now. See once again you admit you are an idolater, yet you believe in the Christian god, the one who sends you to hell for that belief. === You misspelled the name of your lord. === I've got a few blogs you could wrestle with. Epicurus would be a good place to start. Yeah, I see someone didn't read my post on psychology or morals. Religion really doesn't do anything for morality, I think it worsens it, to be honest.
Nitrous... Simply put believing other events and people and stories other tell is not Idol.. it is more leaning towards an over all understanding of information and the source they give. Wise men listen to fools... while Fools listen to themselves and casting away the thoughts of any others. I write in Crypt... maybe you'll understand it one day. O and btw Nitrous I even Listen and Believe you... Its odd but enjoyable as well. Lastly Hitlers evidence does not show his face very well ... and did we avoid Shakespeare very much... and BTW Jesus real name Starts with an I...
G043R quit being stupid. I'm not ignoring your points I addressed all of them. If anything you are the fool who won't listen to me. The only reason I don't accept your points is because they are flawed at a basic level. You said you believe in big foot because there are stories and its better to be safe than sorry, therefore, hearing the story of any other god means you have to believe in him to be safe and if you believe in another god before the Christian god you are bound to hell. And BTW Jesus' name doesn't have two "S's." Don't try to cover your tracks by saying "well in another language it's spelled this way" when you were clearly typing in English. Take your own advice, "Wise men listen to fools... while Fools listen to themselves and casting away the thoughts of any others." You won't even say, "woops lol my bad" on something as simple as a spelling error. Something that doesn't belong to a proper arguement, how can I expect you to relieve anything at all? As for Hitler; it doesn't show his face very well? How many photographs of Jesus do we have? None, therefore Hitler has more evidence for existence than Jesus. Stop trying to argue this, it's irrelevant to the debate and it makes you look stupid. http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Arts/Arts_/Pictures/2007/08/07/hitler460.jpg http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2008/04/22/hitler_narrowweb__300x431,0.jpg http://downwiththeinternet.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/hitler.jpg
But why be good human beings, I'm not saying you couldn't, I'm just asking why bother? Without any higher moral authority to be accountable for and since you only live once, wouldn't you want to delve into a lifestyle full of drugs, sex, and booze. Try and experience it all.
Isn't an athiest a person doesn't have a religion but is unsure if a god exsist? You know borderline believe? Im not sure what an agnostic is actually. I have a friend is. I guess they don't believe in any god at all...?
I know I made a mistake...and btw I jokenly put a link of those pictures can we move on...from that...
Because by experiencing those I limit myself to experience more things in life. Sure, try booze and drugs once if that is really what will make your life complete but I have no interest in it. It's not because I'm afraid too I just don't want too. I'd rather be rock climbing that shooting up heroin and I can't do both because once I start I won't stop. Bad actions have their own bad consequences and I don't need a vindictive punishment beyond the grave to intensify the bad consequences to prevent me from doing it. I have one life, I don't want to waste it on something that could shorten it. Alternatively, a Christian should be the biggest druggy and boozer of all because they can just pray to be forgiven and have an eternity of bliss and happiness and joy so what do they care if they waste their life on drugs? Coincidentally, atheists make up 11% of the population and 0.2 % of the prison population while Christians make up 75% of the population and make up 75% of the prison population. My assumption seems to be correct.