Come on, people. I know this is a touchy subject, but attack the issue, not the participants, no matter how stupid you think they are (or even if they actually are) If you don't want to call gay marriage "marriage," fine. Marriage has its roots in religion, and the government can't force religions to change their own definitions. Make a new name for it then. Just be sure it allows gays the same exact rights straight couples have. If you want to say that your religion makes gay marriage immoral, too bad. In America (other countries too, I'm just not too educated on that) we have separation of church and state.
Lol Klink, I both agree and disagree with you Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. This is where we deviate, I think that the clear benefits (and even moral responsibility) to call it Marriage come in. As I said, I think it makes a clear statement about the point of the movement, to bring equality, and a new name is not equality in principle. Much as I do (and am even about to) argue the tricky business of connotations of words, I think that it's a point of principle to make clear that not only is gay marriage equal to straight marriage, but inherently no different in terms of modern society as a whole. Giving it a different name separates the two, and draws a social barrier between them, and how likely do you think it is that no ill-attitudes towards this new 'ersatz-marriage' would take root and be justified in prejudicial practice based on the name distinction? In terms of what is the sanctity of the church's marriage, they have full rights to their own ideals and practices, but you can't claim a word. Words inherently mean nothing, they rely solely on the connotations we attach to them. By calling gay union Marriage, the church is not being forced to accept it into it's own practices, and it's not being forced to carry out gay union in a church environment and principle. Once again, it is no different in principle to a straight, secular state union. Both are a union that goes against the marriage principles of the church (albeit in different ways), but why does the church not have a problem with one of them? Sure you can say that a secular, straight marriage is not directly contradicting the teachings of the bible in the way that a gay one is, but isn't a straight secular union an equal abuse of the word Marriage to a gay one? Why is one allowed to slide whilst the other is not? Once again: Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.
ER1CO, I don't understand what you are suggesting. Gay marriage won't effect the number of homosexual people in the world. Gay marriage existing isn't going to effect who people are attracted too.
Going with what Pegasi said, regardless of what people call it "officially" it will still also be known as same sex marriage. The church does not, and never will, control everyone. If they really care that much, they should leave America because equality is what this country is about. Just because one believes in something does not mean that everyone else does, so there must be tolerance. Ignorance goes hand in hand with intolerance.
NO... your wording for legal rights is not at all correct because a marriage with a man an woman isn't the same as with people of the same sex...Based Solo on the fact the relationship will not have similar out comes as well how the mechanics of it work. Basically its a new system with a new idea and for front... Want legal right? How so you failed to make what points you have...but what you have made clear is that Hetero Marriage has been abused and is just as sinful. BTW I'm not drunk... Listen to what I'm saying because I'm pointing out alot of different things at once. FIG tree again... you don't want what I have..You just need to be how you are yourself... Legal Rights as in estate Security.... State Taxing for join tax return or what?....If you want those right then your not getting married for the right reasons.... thous are like Perks to a system not rights or liberties entailed ... We all are allowed to love and do as we please but some one system isn't going to change over a sudden moment.. I'm saying this again...Work out a system that works for you and your government Detach marriage from your list ... make up a new word for it if you have to...because You are very close to getting what you want...its just not coined correctly. Its not marriage you want... Sounds to me you want your other to have and to hold ... now would it matter if you have extra rights to ...what you what there or not? Because its more of a want then a need... Do you need your Rights you call as... or do you have what you already have as rights added to? I'm actually siding with you Reynbow...but I'm taking this from a point of view that is Christian... As for 55 hour wedding crap... that is by far the worse thing ever...but people are evil, sinful w/e... I'm not going to cast stones. The fact is Reynbow do you want something you have personal to be specail to you or to your country... Because how you been agruing is nothing but cursing and attacking some one elses point of view. I'm very conservative with in my own life ... I live by one verse... As me and my house I will worship god... Now ...I know that sounds forceful for to say my house..but that means I'm going to teach my kids a similar value even if one day they have there own ...so be it. So face it Reynbow what are you going for ...(using you as a collective statement of Same Sex advocates..) Will you dig deep proving both to yourself as well the world how you feel ..or is it about busness? Or is it just two different people arguing over the lines of how they term something... Thou you use Marriage as to people in love ... I coin it much much Higher... To people in love... beyond reason, understanding... a whipy level of bible love almost... which makes the logic mean nothing.... Its like this Reynbow My Marrige is based Similarly to Gods love for us... I know you don't believe it but thats how it comes down to it. I'm trying to get this to you... ITs not the fact your not allowed to have rights its not that you can't do what you want when you what how you want... Its something So ..much deeper... when you hear my term of Marrige... So if you want the marrige like the law has it now... I'm going to tell you...the marriges many many Couples have then will be empty. Its not about having fun... and it isn't about how other people are... Personally I view it as people could actually get married with out even any one knowing...(not with a witness of some one else) But that gets ify... I mean... I'm basing that of God seeing everything...Don't know if that works here... So... Yes.. Reynbow to answer your question about I'm asking you to prove it... So the fact your happy with how you are... be a complete person you are... it holds how your really are. I hope to find Marrige in the way stated above with a love beyond understanding... anything else is a fake marrige = to A fun marrige of w/e... I'm going to church now ... ttyl.
Wrong. You are so off there. It shows that women who have a higher reproductive capacity produce more gay men, not that those women themselves are gay. The gene that allows them to give birth to all these children also give her children the possibility of being gay. Your article says NOTHING about homosexuals dominating the population. It is statistically impossible. So wait, gays don't deserve to live in happiness completely separate from you (probably never making an impression on you at all) because you like sugar in your jelly? What if I'm allergic to sugar so I need the sugar-free jelly for my sandwich? Should we ban the production of sugar-free jelly just because most people don't like sugar-free? Separation of church and state. You no longer have a say if you are basing it on religious reasons (legally of course). A perfect unity? Are you f***ing serious? Read your damn bible. 1 Corinthians 7:9 - King James Bible "But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn." Listen to yourself, a holy union? Which is more perfect in god's eyes: Two gays who love each other marrying or a rapist marrying the girl he raped? According to Deuteronomy 22, the penalty for the rape of a married woman was the same as for adultery - death to both the rapist and the victim. The penalty for the rape of an unmarried woman was that the rapist was forced to marry his victim (and pay the bridal price to the woman's father). Marriage is not sacred in god's eyes. ------- G043R I'll get onto your points later. I have to go to prom fair.
This is a debate about policy, not religion. I'm pretty sure if there is a God he doesn't care if there are gay people. "How do you know Eons?" I don't; but you don't either. "Oh but this really old book says so." Prove to us the credibility of that book. Do you see God raining down lighting on people because they go against "his word"? What is his word anyway? Do you know that those terrorists who blow themselves up have just as strong convictions as you about what they believe? No one can know God's word. If you really feel that gays should not marry, pray to God so he can kill all the gays. See how that works.
I say this because I feel that certain religious groups dislike gay marriage not because they view it as immoral, but only because they don't like the state forcing them to change the definition of "their" word. Does calling it "Gay Marriage" make it not "marriage?" I guess me suggesting that gay marriage be called something different is simply appeasement. And that didn't work so well with **** Germany. (Uh oh, Godwin's law.)
How can you question what make impressions on me?. Love is one thing that you can't be messy with. I can try to think that I understand how gays view this. Some may view marriage as the one way to show their love. Kind of what G043R has said, If you're truthfully in love, then the bonuses with marriage shouldn't matter. If it's the bonuses you would like, then there are other ways of obtaining your goals in life. In this way, I think homosexuals don't deserve marriage. Marriage doesn't carry on to the afterlife, but it is all the same a holy... privilege. The whole point is that the act of marriage is done in the presence of God. I think God had his choice in making Adam and Eve, I believe he started humanity, but left it to us to act correctly and to do what is right. How can you say God views marriage as not sacred??? Do you know God, do you communicate with him??? The Bible is a story not meant to be taken literally. It's to encourage faith. Taking quotes directly from the Bible will prove absolutely nothing when it comes to God's point of view on marriage. I take my basis from the roots. I believe in the way that God created Adam and Eve. He had total choice in creating man and woman. Marriage is done in church. How can I not base marriage off of religious reasons? God is present to begin with. I will not participate anymore in this discussion thread. I think this is beginning to become too personal. I don't want to be labeled. I try not to do the same to others. These are my thoughts. I may not be 100% satisfied with them, but I try my best.
So gay people should pretend that they are married because God says they shouldn't even be there in the first place... You know, it's not like they're straight people who wake up one day and say, "I think I'm going to be a gay person." It's something that they are born with; you can't change that so you have to accommodate for it. Again, not everyone believes in God so such excuses against gay marriage are not going to fly. (Plus, like Nitrous keeps saying, didn't God make people? Isn't it essentially "his fault" that they are gay?) Do you know God? Do YOU communicate with him? Nitrous was not saying that his word is unsacred, but that he may not even exist. Plus, HOW do YOU KNOW that the bible is even God's word? Sure, it's a good guide but I don't think it's all his. Therefore, I'm not willing to label it as "his word" because it really isn't. You also said taking quotes from the bible will do nothing against you, yet you are taking the story of Adam and Eve and using it in your argument. By your reasoning, your argument is now invalid. If you are not satisfied with your beliefs, seek the answers you want. If you cannot find any answers, then that is because you can't find them on Earth. Those are the answers that you look to religion to answer; however, you can't know if what that religion says is right. Formulate your own opinions, and you will have, in a way, answered your own questions.
so I have formulated my own opinion in God's way. We're getting into all sorts of other subjects. I'm sorry, but I'm done, not because of this thread, but from reasons stated above. Edit: and actually I do communicate with God, we all do ... in obvious ways
it's comments like these that make me want to leave. It's just such ignorant posts that make me believe that this discussion thread isn't worth visiting. Think before you post. Try and remember things. In no way did I say that God told me gays shouldn't marry. I don't want to explain every little detail. Show me some respect. Jeez, ya know how I just sat there and laughed while people screamed and hollered. I've heard the f word being used at me more than I have this whole time I've been in this community. Wow, open your minds a little. Read a little something now and then. We live in a much larger world than you'd believe. Debates aren't supposed to be this way. Not that it was intentional, but it's more of the people that has brought this dull, bland, ugly side to the site you know and love. You guys make this waaay too personal. "when did he tell you gays shouldn't marry", "**** you, nobody cares what you think", "not like you would feel that kind of impression".... it's funny, really. -I lol'd I thank the ones who put up a good argument though. Some people can't handle it, and until I'm proven otherwise, I just can't enter this side of the site. By-Bye! (and yeah that was like my 3rd time saying bye)
i oppose gay marriage completely. not *******, but gay. gays are just disgusting people, and deserve to be exiled. i dislike all gays, and think they are disgusting people. plus they spread AIDS more than anyone else in the world. gays deserve no marriage. gays fail
This ignorant drivel is very similar to the venom spewed by evangelicals like Ted Haggard, who ultimately turn out to be hiding their own homosexuality. It's the blind, ignorant hatred of a lifestyle that has absolutely no effect on your personal life that needs to be driven out of our society if we're ever going to come to any sort of peace and understanding as a race. Way to provide a convincing argument, you pathetic sheep.
I frequent these debates because they are fun and you get to see other points of view. However, you need to be able to support your own arguments. Saying you are going to leave because you won't stand up to the opposition is not a good argument. No one will feel bad, because we are all just debating. Furthermore, you dramatized the responses to your points; I have no respect for such an act. I don't believe anyone in here has been "raging". No one has said we didn't value your opinion. Of course there are some things that people take personally, this is a touchy subject. You must understand that in the debates, people will argue against you with every point that they have. Just because someone says something against you doesn't mean they hate you. It's just the nature of the debate. (And just so you know, I start to use caps and bold text to emphasize certain points, particularly when I have asked something before that has not yet been answered.) You ask us to open our minds, yet you refuse to let go of your religious principles. I don't blame you for that, but you can't accuse us of being closed-minded because our opinions are different. We're very aware of the larger world, which is the reason we debate now; we want to expand our horizons of thought. I find it odd that you choose to belittle us and accuse us of being closed-minded when debates have just the opposite effect. Words of wisdom. (p.s. Why is is that you are the only one who feels left out in the cold? Again, not being offensive, simply asking.)
Debate... the TOPIC not about debating... thanks... So, Simply going to pose questions to any one pro Same sex marriage... When are you going to defend your topic as appose to attack a religious organization..? First off Peg's statement about legal or not ... its going to happen... actually proves a few simple concepts not actually being used by those actually trying to win a point. Instead of demanding your equal rights ... you have to have them in the first place..., people in love and with shared estates aready have fair rights with property... So what do you want for rights?
Yeah sorry, I just felt the need to defend the debate forum. So, what do the pro same-sex marriage people have to prove? Well, we are for it because it gives gays and lesbians an equal chance at marriage that straight people have. I will reciprocate your question; why are you against it? (Besides religious reasons, I mean.) It is true that gays and lesbians already have rights, but what they seek in this situation is marriage. That is the right that they want. And, um, hold on a second... What does this mean? The only way they can have equal rights is if they have them in the first place? Let's apply this argument to slavery in the way back when. If you were to say this about slaves, you would be saying "slaves cannot be free because they were not free to begin with". That is quite unfair. I feel that same-sex couples should be given the same rights as straight couples. Furthermore, these rights would not interfere with the lives of others. As many have already stated, it would actually help since those couples could adopt orphans if they wanted kids.