Forging 101 Randomization By: AZN FTW So first things first... this found sometime at the beginning of last year, just never got around to explaining things for my fellow hubbers. Throughout the past year and a half of Halo, there have been many instances of randomization used in map. From my map, Hangin' on The Platform on Epitaph with the 2 randomly generated fusion coils, followed by the improved Hobo Heights by Yavi and TDF that randomly had one of the pallets not spawn (If I remember correctly). It's just been subtle and not enough to where people would use it as a mechanic. Or recognize it as one. Randomization only works within one object type. Basically you make all single walls random, and/or all fenceboxes, and/or all grav lifts. You can't make a group of fenceboxes and double boxes randomize together, but you can have them randomize seperately. To setup randomization: Place all possible locations of the object type down at once. Set all of those objects that you want randomized to not spawn at start and to spawn in any amount of seconds Set the runtime minimum to: amount of the object that you want to spawn randomly + amount of the object that you want to spawn every round For example... say I want to have these 4 corner walls for my building to always spawn. I set all of those to spawn at start. However I have 10 other corner walls and I want those to be spawned randomly. I simply set those 10 walls to not spawn at start and to 180 seconds. Then I set the object type's runtime minimum to 14 (10 random + 4 non-random). Note that the randomization only works for 3 minutes at most for MOST objects. However there are a few objects that you can "refresh" their timer for randomization. These are all of the destructible objects, and pickup objects. All weapons, equipment, grenades, explosives, pallets, grav lifts, etc. can be made to be infinitely randomized if done correctly. Also starting a new round resets the randomization. Utilizing these tricks can increase the versatility of maps and keep them interesting. Originally people told this possibility off because there was a little something that people didn't realize about randomization. The lower your minimum/maximum runtime the less chance you have for it to be random. Many people have tested this trick with 2 boxes out of 4, or something similiar and noticed little to no change. Asper49, Betawaffle, and myself all did research on this in Foundry, and the difference between spawning 1 rocket launcher out of 3 compared to 6 out of 8 was amazing. Experiment and maybe someone can come up with an advanced guide to randomization, like Devil's guide on respawns. Enjoy your new forging trick, don't over use it though. Remember that you must build it into your maps for it to be well balanced. Also don't forget that after 3 minutes all indestructible objects spawn... if you can build to take advantage of that, then good for you. Mix tihs up with other forge techniques (advanced grav lifts, geo-merging, interlocking, instant spawning, symmetrical options, etc.) to get some real cool tricks into your map. Good luck to you... For an example of Randomization in action: Dynamo by AZN FTW AZN OUT!!!
azn well wrote and thanks for the tutorial. i have a great idea for this technique in a map... i will use it with symmetrical and asymmetrical settings as well... TyRant still loves you..
Nice tut and pretty nifty technique. I tried this with custom powerups once for a silly little mini-game idea I had. It failed miserably. This trick should definitely by done with a larger number of objects, as AZN suggested. When I did it with custom powerups it would always spawn the same ones, which incidentaly were the first 2 I placed. I theorised that the order in which you initially spawned objects onto the map (i.e. when you selected them from the object menu) had a very large impact on the priority that object had of been selected to spawn when the run-time minimum increased. I don't know if that theory could have an impact on anyone trying to use this randomiser. Perhaps you may notice stuff you spawned earlier appearing more oftem, perhaps not, I could be way off in my guess.
I thought the exact same thing when I was trying this with weapons a while back. Every time the first Brute Shot I put down (out of 2) would spawn first. I tried putting the other one down first and the same thing happened. As AZN mentioned, too little of one item may ruin the trick.
DAMMIT! I was hoping I could finish up my ripoff-version of your maze before you posted this. ****. Oh well. I'm sure this is really valuable information. Pity about Labyrinth, btw AZN. You still working on it? Edit: Oh hey, Dynamo.
So if I put 8 walls, 6 on instant respawn and runtime min 7 then would the other two's randomization be screwed up? I have to wonder if that would be the same as if you just put down 2 walls and a runtime minimum of 1, or if the randomization would work if there are many other of that item.
I was talking to Tyrant about this and suggested a map where you have fence walls, single walls, and double boxes on asymmetrical and fenceboxes, double/corner walls, and single boxes on symmetrical. You could have two COMPLETELY different randomized maps based on symmetry... how cool would that be? And I am working on the new labyrinth with Sage, we still have to clean it up and do all the gametypes... And I get what you are saying zepplin... I think it would still be random, cuz on dynamo I have 13 out of 16 corner walls and it is pretty random. Also I think that the spawning system for objects works the same as for people. Based off of where everyone spawns and where everyone ends depends on where all the objects spawn. Cuz I went through a ten round session and didn't move (I just wanted screenshots of the layout) and the layout only changed by like 1 walls 2 out of the 10 rounds... and I think those 2 rounds I moved. Also infection human spawns are pretty much the same every round and the layouts are similiar every round... that makes me wonder. Another random trick is you could do random spawns using random objects blocking the spawns. So you can have people random spawn in different sections of a map and have each part of the map blocked off from the others. 4 different maps in one and randomly spawn in each of them. Could be interesting...
Maybe after 3 minutes... but you could use something like Pallets or something else that isn't immovable, but could still block off the points... like crates... gotta think outside the box bro...
I can see me puting this 101 too good use for my maps. Nice 101. Iv seen it done in manifest, so mabey his could be use a little more too make games a twist.
I found this out a few months ago when I was messing around with falling Fusion Coils. Anyhow, nice guide for anybody who hasn't seen this yet! This will further improve maps to show different gameplay everytime! Although I despise your newest map for only being succesful due to this glitch, I would like to see a larger map like Grindstone use this glitch. Perhaps I will. Smiley faces for all!!!
You despise it? If it was bigger it wouldn't feel like the maze that it is. Just because it's simple doesn't mean you should despise it. And it's not just popular for the technique. It's good because it is a simple solution for simple gametypes. I'm all about the simple stuff. Cuz without the simple stuff you couldn't make the complex stuff. Sometimes simple is all you need. Now only that, I'm sure many people will make failed attempts at using randomization... it happens with every trick (grav liftrs, interlocking, geomerging, etc). You can't just through together something with randomization and have it work. You actually have to think it through. Similiarly not every map can utilize randomization, same as not every map utilizing the other 101s. Grindstone would be awkward with this... maybe something more like Gridlock would work.
Nice job on finding the technique AZN...Maybe it'll actually bring back some good mini-games....or even more interesting Infection games....
You know if this ever gets added to the real Forging 101s we would actually see some interesting maps result...
I played this yesterday with 5 or so people on the 'Respawn' gametype (I think you should all instantly* know what gametype I'm talking about) and the map seemed to me to be exactly the same, each time. The game was basically FFA, just with the Respawn gametype, and was 5 rounds long (I set it that way in the hopes that it would be random every time and be more fun). However, as I said, nothing changed. The walls were all placed in the same places. Any ideas? *The instantly in italics is a hint as to what gametype I'm talking about, duh.
I mentioned this already... I think it works the same way as spawns for people do... it is based off of threatening the objects and where you are at the end of previous rounds and what not. You have to move for it to be randomized... If you don't move, it doesn't work. You have to actually play the map with regular people. I realized this when I tried getting just screenshots of different layouts. I stood still and notcied that after ten rounds there were virtually no changes to the layout... so everyone can test this if they like... but I can assure you that it works whisper...