That is an extremely mature response, and for that you have my respect. Now I will admit it I haven't played your map. My issue is in the shield doors and I say this because: bungie removed their shield door/shotty maps shield doors because everyone hated the camping. Now where it is objective, this may not hold such a big deal. The teleporters? Meh, teleporters can be used right..people give them too much ****. I'm sure they are perfectly fine. As for your aesthetics, they don't matter. Gameplay is all that matters, and I can't comment on your gameplay. Though as it stands my opinion of ATLAS failing is in bungies own organzation of and completely nothing to do with your map. I just think they if they can't play and provide feedback to enough maps to actually locate the best map overall, than why bother at all? Also you say you have tested a lot and things are placed very specifically, and this may be true, but neither you nor bungie is able to test enough with a large enough variation of people to fully contemplate a maps reception, and in turn how "well" it ends up doing in matchmaking. I'm sure bungie didn't build epitaph, than include it thinking it was going to be an utter failure. Not saying your map will be an utter failure. Now I'm really mostly defending myself here, I'm not positive if anyone else has the same issues as me, but don't take this as a personal attack on you. We've seen bungie not listen to near necessities in forge before, and it's an issue with their overall application of this group. For your response alone to this thread, among other things (the fact that you do have a map in matchmaking as well), you have my respect, and I'm sure the respect of many other hubbers. Interlocks aren't always needed, so don't let it get ya down.
Sorry OctoDeath, but your map does NOT deserve to be anywhere close to MM. I'm gonna be brutally honest because it's really needed here. The forging community can't kiss eachothers asses and say "your map is cool" when it obviously isn't. This is why I support the AJ Critique. We need people that are willing to sound like an asshole and tell people when there map sucks. I do like the fact you are being very mature about this thread. You will need that strength when your map is in matchmaking and people are constatnly either A-Telling you how much it sucks, or B-Consistently vetoing as fast as humanly possible. This took a year to be made? Any decent forger could build this in a day. Not saying your a bad forger, but there is nothing good about the map at all. It goes against any competetive map design articles you will ever find in too many ways. I can't say why Bungie picked it, except that if Anvil made it......why not this. The one thing that really gets me about this map, is the teleporter that leads to a tiny room. Can you please explain WTF you were thinking when that was put into your "design"? And if I sound a little upset, it's cause I am. There were many maps submitted that were extremely better than this all around. Also the fact that your map is now what everyone is going to see when they think of the ATLAS group, it's embarrasing. This will turn more people away from user created maps then ever.
I don't know whether you are a member of Atlas or not, so forgive me if you are and already know this, but Bungie, or rather Shishka, has and does leave feedback on many maps in the group. Furthermore, while I agree that no map can be tested with a huge variation of people, it has to be noted that Octoplex has been internally tested at Bungie along with several other maps, and made it through. Time will tell, I guess, whether the map is a success or not. I'm hoping for the best. I'm interested to see what you think of the map once you've played it though. Finally I just have to mention, mostly out of vanity, that Octoplex is quite extensively interlocked, even if it's not obvious at first glance, go see for yourself! Oh, and I owe it to this community here for teaching me about the interlocking technique... In response to the above two points: 1. When I say I've worked on this for a year, I don't mean working on it all year. I have a job, and other commitments in the real world. That said though, what took the longest was placing spawns, and game variant specific items. 2. You got me very worried here when you mentioned the telepoter that leads into a tiny room. I'm assuming you are loading the map up in Forge mode, because there are one or two pieces of scenery, and a set of teleporters that spawn depending on symmetric or asymmetric gametypes. Load up a slayer custom and you'll see that teleporter leads to a corridor, which houses the Spartan Laser, and has another node at the end
I tried viewing the map on forgehub, http://www.forgehub.com/forum/competitive-maps/21811-octoplexity.html But he lost his photobucket and is too lazy to fix the pictures. I cant see the Bungie one eather. From what i can read some say it sucks, while octo says he tested the hell out of it. I do agree aesthetics play a major role, but maybe in bungiee's eyes they see it differently. I cant criticize until i play.
First off lets not shoot the guy in the foot that open the door for everyone else. What I mean is, that if this map is a success; there will be room for more. However, if the community itself, will not except their own, how do you think the general community will responded to user-created content? So-- is Atlas a joke? Well yes and no. Forge wasn’t created originally to make full blow maps.-- it was made to play some RTS game type, that no one plays. Over time, forging in Halo has evolved into something else. Kids get more excited seeing maps that have crazy geos and glitches that take hours. (The funny thing is-- it take about 5 sec. to make a ramp in 3D-max and Maya.) But, don’t have a clue about level design. Map flow, connectivity, routes, cover, risk vs. reward, LOS, spawning, and weapon placement. Now-- does esthetics effect a maps playability? In short Yes. Take a map like foundry; made by Bungie and compare it to industries. One has cracks and bumps and one is smooth and solid. A casual gamer will not care about a few bump and cracks, and frankly, probably wont even notice if he/ she dies because a nade fell through the level geometry. However, a competitive gamer would notice the difference. In a completive environment it could effect the out come of the game. In closing, Halo 3 is for casual players and Atlas is a group for casual level designers. For the casual person, Atlas is a success. For someone trying to beef up their portfolio, Atlas is a joke. I hope no one plans on applying to Bungie with a link to their file share.
Octodeath has made octoplex HERE if you didn't know. I don't see its potential. I honestly, think that there are other maps that should have had the go ahead before this one.
Kon, I wanna thank you for bringing alot of things into perspective. I see now that ATLAS isn't for good map design, good forging or competetive creations but more for Assault Rifle toting BK's. I think Lions cage would be a perfect candidate for ATLAS now that I think about it.
My sentiments exactly, bungie dumbed down H3, the same as epic dumbed down gears2. It's all about mass appeal, and lets just face it: there are more crappy AR totin nubs than there are competitive mindset players.
Same as a lot of others said. I really don't like this map. Sorry to be blatant, but there are many more deserving maps. Although I do have respect, as you must have done SOMETHING right to get it into matchmaking. Reinforcing what I said before though, I think Shishka is looking for absolute perfect spawns, which this map apparently has.
Your maturity continues to shine through with every thread/post I've ever seen from you. As for ATLAS, I'm just disappointed in the participation from forger's in general over there. The group has been open for a few months, and only a handful of maps have been submitted, and only a few from ForgeHub. Shishka originally said there would be an entire user-content playlist, but after about a month with ATLAS, relegated it to just a selected map here and there injected straight into MM. I believe he did this because he was expecting more from the forging community, which he rightfully should. He hasn't announced what the next submission theme will be, and isn't giving feedback on maps. My gut tells me that Bungie has already given up on ATLAS, but I really hope that isn't so. In short, if ATLAS is a joke, its only because the forging community made it a joke, by a piss-poor showing.
Ivory, do it. the more people who submit quality maps, the more chance of success ATLAS will have. its the lack of participation thats making it what it currently is, NOT Bungie's selection.
Redeemer... we want to submit it, but after a 9 hours straight forgefest, i am beginning to think this one cannot be unglitched... if we can unglitch it, its gonna cost us some mighty specific things. :/
I was hoping to submit Lithium(Remedy MM) once I tested it. If Kentucky Tango isn't accepted, I WILL lose faith.
I am the master un-glitcher. Kentucky Tango unglitch? that was me. Chasm unglitch? That was me.. Faction unglitch? Me again..
well, we might have to call in on you if we fail at it. we're almost out of materials to build with, which tells me we're well over the budget. scrapping things on this map will be very difficult. i got a short list of what can go, but i highly doubt its even close.
G04 did it.. DTL hasn't done much with it yet unfortunately. He's working on getting Gridlocked finalized for it