ACKSHULEY! ur rong buddeh. Ya know, guys. I figured it out. All of our debating; all of our logic; all of our time and effort spent on furthering our knowledge of each other and the topics discussed is naught but FRUITLESS. "OH, WHY d_d, would you say such a thing?!?!" Simple, my friend- because "viprikr" ultimately decided anyways. Instead of wasting our time trying to figure it out ourselves, we should obviously just ask this more-than-willing-to-offer-his-all-knowing-input fellow.
I'm not sure if this debate is still going, but I would just like to give my opinion on the subject. I say it's cheap. Why? Because it stops the flow of the gameplay, it ruins the game for the players, and you gain nothing out of it but being a sore-winner. HLG stops the flow of the game because, they get up by a kill or two and then hiding somewhere that most players don't know about. Instead of having a battle for skill vs skill it is just basically a game of hide N seek. Last time I checked, Halo 3 was an FPS, not a FPHnS (First Person Hide n Seek). It also ruins the game for the players because maybe they were going to go for an achievement that game, maybe they were going to try and get a streak, maybe they were going to try and get a ToD as a Power Weapon? But they can't if some HLG Guys go and hide in a corner, ruining the game. If you say "Using power weapons ruins the game too" Actually, they make it better. Imagine Halo with BR's and Duals only. I think that would be the most boring game ever..power weapons change the layout of the game, whether it be going power vs power, or Map plan layout vs Power. When it comes to hiding, not much can beat it besides having knowledge of the spots already. This also ruins the game, because the player doesn't get to play that game for fun..they lose to a few guys that are play-to-win dicks. Lastly, if you play HLG, you get nothing out of it! Everyone has their own interpretation of "Fun" but usually it means having a good time. If the HLG players hide behind a rock or up on a ledge, it may be funny at first, but it isn't fun after a while. Also to the non-HLG players, it just simply isn't fun..it's a cheap/dirty way of getting a win. That is all HLG is about, winning. But, hey! Who cares about fun right? Lets just play a game that is all about winning, no matter what the hell you gotta do! Mod, Standby, Boost, Hide, whatever, as long as you win!
Wow I leave for a few days and come back to this After reading the whole thread, start to finish, I would just like to argue or debate some points. ok. first: Tristan28, Bungie is not a supremacist cult out making super secrets in every game. They are out for global domination. (off topic: the superintendent was not really.. well, a true member of bungie. he was a pissed off employee who F***ed around and bungie played with it. read up on it. all of it. not just they little discussions, but the information. and PLEASE do not start discussing that here XD. start a new thread and talk there, and link it here. AND I give you full permission to as well.) ALSO: ok.. think of forge. Bungie made a VERY simple level editor. now. you use interlocking to make a map, and realize when you are near completion there is a large gap. in order to fix that gap, you need to move every single damed piece slightly. Such a FUC*ING long process.... just to get rid of a gap. the programming is the same way. change the codes slightly in one spot, could make another gap in another. It is NOT THAT SIMPLE to fix. :eguitarplaya33: but.. ok. using corners and section for cover IS using the map to your advantage, but hiding out WAY out or even slightly out is not using the map to your advantage... It's using a glitch or a mistake to your advantage. something that was not intended. Cover in map:100% a-ok. outside? not really [IMO] :Whisper: What the f***? Were you angry when you came here>? you barely argued the debate >_> anyways, your points are now being attacked : I argued that with tristian. They could fix that one. the others not so much. Death barriers are not a physical item... Its coding based on time, and a 3-Space codec. IF PLayer location is x-y-z = LOCATION( aka out or foundry past that section) Then: Death. but if you mess with the xyz [since master chief takes up more than one pixel of information and space, he's a 3"d object so ther are hundreads of xyz reference points) you could seriously easily mess up the rest of the map straight to hell.. make a random thin line on a map kill you accidentally, for example. again, it is NOT THAT EASY to fix. And bungie have stated SEVERAL times that they don't like hiding. In fact, Draw the Line kindly shared the link to a Podcast of an interview with a bungie member, and it was stated. here is a link to that: Well, until you prove this, I'm going to wrap a bubble around that post, then throw it into the "Complete Bull Sh*t" box, and return it to the bottom of the ocean. ASSUMING you do find the proof, bungie would have said so. They don't ALLways like when employees do solo missions on projects [aka superintendent] and would try to do it. Also, several people are assigned to each maps' Creation and Development, not just one man. The team would have noticed if the spots were being made on purpose. They test the maps thousands of times before releasing them till they have them to the best. ONe man wouldn't be able to, sneak in sevreral thousand sections of codes, just to make a spot to hide >_<. AND, IF making the hiding spots was on purpose, other bungie members would have discussed it amongst themselves, and then after all the emails they are getting on the matter, they would have simply said, "We meant it to be that way" as Dented Drum also already showed: I just started a new thread. couldn't find yours. If you want you could link yours? Unless it's dead. I don't want necro'ed threads in here. Darkdragon, please XD love ya, but seriously? You can Also start a thread showing off your mad skills at hiding, but this thread is discussing it's moral level, not how super hard it is to pull off. I know you have like.. 12 on the go. please only list one X_x Don't know ? Start a new thread and debate that one away ^_^ and as a last general note, I obliviously agree with all the people who are on the "It's Cheap" side of this debate. I've repped you and stated why. well spoken some of you.
Let me figure something out... what's the difference between in-map and out-of-map hiding? Can I get some examples? Then, I could tell you if it's cheap or not.
In map hiding is using the items like crates, hallways, ammo cases, anything within the natural level limits to hide and get cover from. out of level hiding is like... underneath construct, or in the small cliffs of guardian, or behind blackout, or the spots in rats nests. little spots that you can hide in and no one can follow you. Or once you get a kill lead to make sure you don't loose it. or when it's tied simply to piss people off, then rain down on them when they are running around trying to find you hot headed to get the lead with 1 minute left in the game >_> [Typical event]
You have made one of the first posts that actually get us somwhere, you have to be stupid to think watching people jump off the map, and walk past you, oblivious of you, and shoot at other walls isnt funny
Did you hit the enter button too early because this sentence doesn't look to be finished. you have to be stupid to think watching people jump off the map, and walk past you, oblivious of you, and shoot at other walls..... yeah, and? Your point is?
I agree. Dragon,.... wtf were you trying to say XD rinse repeat and try with a different shampoo? I think you meant it's hilarious and we must be stupid to think that's not funny. well... i agree that it is. but i would only do that if i was playing a game of hide and seek. I go into slayer to play slayer. i play hide and seek in hide and seek games. its that simple to me. hiding is meant for hiding game types. like the minotaur in pilgrim hunt. try that. its a blast. but for in slayer? cheap. wrong. and should be avoided. only use in-map design and objects for cover, not out of map.
It is kind of cheap, but its imature to say its cheating. I have done HLG, and unless you have done it, you will never experience the nerves of getting into your spot, the relief of getting there, the hours of pratice it took in the first place, and how funny it is when the other team get angry in the post games lobbies. To be honest, most people only do it for a reaction, at least thats all i do it for. If people didn't make such a big deal out of it, it would probably die quicker. (Not that i want it to ^_^)
While I agree it is a cheap tactic to use, I have to wondering why you guys are arguing about this in halo, when you can get under maps in call of duty world at war just by jumping at certain walls! Compared to other games, Halo 3 has very few ways to get out of maps that also make its possible to run around under the floor killing people
This is why the NBA added a shot clock games would end 4-2, because after someone made a shot, they would just hold the ball for the rest of the quarter The NBA found a solution, bungie just needs to find one too
Wrong. Bungie didn't put hiding spots in the map, they overlooked some crap in the game and decided to disregard it. And the ghost/rocket thing, they were put to serve AS cheap weapons, so kills could could be possible from all skill levels.
You dissing the ghost? It takes more skill than you think if you use it correctly... Anyway, Hiding is a tactic for those who can win by skill....
Was it really necessary? Seriously, you didn't really do anything productive for this thread, everyone most likely knew what I meant, so there was no need to correct it and say "Fix'd". Back on Topic: For the record, Bungie never intended for people to exploit those out-of-the-map hiding spots people find. Bungie just overlooked them. But of course, a lot of Halo's players can't resist to the game their way and not the way it is supposed to be played...
Bungie blocked all the places that were extremely bad in match making, so I guess they condone the places currently in the maps now. =P, Thats just what I think though...
Don't get me wrong, i do HLG, i understand why people do it, and i understand why people hate it. I used to hate it, i tried it, now i like it, so i think my opinion is somewhat fair... One thing that does really irritate me is this : Hding has nothing to do with skill. You could never get a 50 by hiding, it just does not work like that. People who don't do HLG seem to think that it wrokd all the time, when in fact it works around 30-50% at most. In fact, there was one HLG clan whose requirements where that you did not care if your rank went down. You guys who oppose it have to remember that skil has absouloutly nothing to do with it. Me, and all HLG'ers do it for fun, not because we could not beat the other team. I am a brig, me and my friend started a new account to do HLG. Of course we could of won those games by fighting, but we choose not to. I think before this argumwent moves on we need to clear up the skill and HLG are only related in the skill it takes to get to some spots, not how good we are as players.
Just on a side note for the start, I always found it to be hilarious that Bungie would block all of the common spots that people would hide in, just to make it so we had to use the LESS COMMON spots to hide, where no one would look. Yes, I like HLG. Of course, there are bound to be people who hate anyone who hides during a game, but Bungie DID create those spots. It's not like when we forge we purposely put in hiding spots for people. Bungie made complex geometry, and therefore, unintended things appeared. And would you consider it cheap if someone was sniping you across the map when you couldn't hit them? They had knowledge of where a certain weapon spawned, and they used it to their advantage. Same principle applies here, the people who took the time to learn this stuff benefit by it. HLG isn't even as easy as most assume it is (as the "most" part comes from rumors spread by people or the many youtube videos showing these spots used in games). First you need to take the lead, and this is where I say skill doesn't apply. Teams have good starts and bad starts. A well placed grenade could kill you when you normally would have picked up the rockets, etc. But note that most times hiding begins, is generally past halfway through the game. Second, the team must get the opponents on a spawn cycle so they have time to get to their spots unnoticed, and as everyone knows, your set-up can be broken anytime, and more commonly after you've held it for a while. Third, they must use their practice to get to the spot in question.