By supernatural I mean not bound to the physics and laws of this universe. Also can you give an example of a miracle?
If we have been able to turn wild dogs into things as diverse as this.... and this...... .....within human time scales, what makes it so difficult to believe that even more massive physical changes took place given the extremely long time period the earth has existed. How old do you think the Earth is, anyway?
I'm sorry if I came off that way Eon. I believe that the chance for life or the universe forming are impossible through natural forces. I do believe that God and only God can do the impossible, and is the only reason why the universe or life formed. Yes I believe that God is not bound to the physics and laws of this universe a.k.a. supernatural. A miracle would be Jesus raising Lazerus from the dead. @makisupa007 One reason is that there is no proof for it; just theories which often turn out to be beliefs. I don't really know how old the earth is. I know science says that the earth is 4.6 billion years old. Some Christains believe that the earth is 6,000 years old. I do know that the Bible is filled with lineages. If the "tree" can be traced to Jesus's time, D.C., you could find out that way. I'd have to look into the reasons behind each hypothesis before I could say which one I'm for.
So if God can do the impossible, why is it impossible that he made the universe spawn life after its creation (without going through a separate process)? EDIT: So it's like: God makes the universe > reactions happen with non-living material (as experimented by Miller) > life forms It still happens through God, but indirectly.
First off, it is possible. I believe that it's unlikely, because there isn't evidence for it. Instead there is evidence that God quickly and suddenly made life (the Pre Cambrian explosion/fossil record), without using a "long" method like yours above.
Two things, first was that miracle prove to happen, and I can't ever change your mind if you truly believe in something supernatural.
You gave me evidence for it by way of Miller's experiments; hence its possibility. I will agree though that both methods are possible.
Well, you should look into the reasons. Discovering how old the Earth is is an important step in understanding how we came to be here.
I don't know if that miracle has ever been proven in the sense that you're looking for. I'd have to look into historical texts to see if they mention the event. I do know that the Bible has many historical details going for it; making it reliable. I also know it's possible because God is real (as discussed in my original post), therefore Jesus is God, and Jesus then has the power to raise people from the dead. I'm sorry to disappoint you because you can't change my mind. I was saying if Miller's experiments were possible. His experiments plus the up-to-date experiments have been discredited. They don't work. I will as soon as I can. I've just taken a liking to these kind of things in the past few months. It's hard to fit stuff like that in right now.
Yes, the bible has many historical facts in it, but why not just read the historical facts for concrete evidence? You can't use the bible as fact because it is based upon belief; furthermore, it cannot be relied on because it is heavily biased. How do you know that people didn't insert their own beliefs and agendas into the bible? How do you know it's all true? Read my latest blog, and you'll get my opinion on the bible.
@ Eon Read I Don't Have Enough Faith To Be An Atheist. It talks about why the Bible can be trusted as reliable. The Bible may be biased but it can still be trusted. If a terroist tells you that the Twin Towers were attacked, he's telling the truth. He may be biased, but what he said is still true. @ninja By original, I mean the first time I posted in this thread. As for taking the Bible literally, I believe you have to take it by context.
The terrorist would not be biased; what you said doesn't even make sense. You can trust what he is saying about the twin towers because it was witnessed by many people; it's actual history. There is no bias in that situation, only fact. Also, just because there are facts in the bible doesn't mean it's all true. For example, if I told you a story about how I fought in a war, I would use facts to make it sound real. But, I have never fought in any wars, so my whole story is not true. Mixing facts with lies is a great way to hide the truth.
This is about as best I can explain this. Check out the book I mentioned, it talks about why it can be trusted much better than I can.
Do you concede, however, that the bible is not completely factual? (stressing again, that I am Catholic [somewhat lol]) (I'm not forcing you to concede, I just want to know your stance.)
Keep in mind this post may be completely wrong. Jesus was born on earth, right? If he was and he is god, as you said, how could god have been there before the big bang if he was born on earth?
I believe that the ideas, values, and concepts of the Bible are true. It does contain parables (stories used to teach a moral), but I believe that that most (almost all) of it is true. --- Well, this it for me. I've had my fill of back and forth debating for awhile. If you guys have an honest to goodness question, not a debate, feel free to pm me. I suggest you all read I Don't Have Enough Faith To Be An Atheist. You'll acquire a better understanding and sound more edumacated.....I'd better brush up on my history. !Hasta Luego!