The conditions were there because there is highly improboble that we live right now, so the proteins you said that have a small chance in being formed can still form. Do you understand that. If not, i'll try to reword it. I won't lie, I think both arguements are valid and make sense. maybe one day, we will find out if something was before the big bang, maybe not. Also, wouldn't there be about 300 gods, think of all the religons and the native american gods. PS. Spelling sucks. You can still read the word if its spelled wrong anyway.
I understand what you're saying, but again that word chance pops up again. And like I said early the probabilities that some form of "life" would form are impossible. Those lifeforms also wouldn't evolve because evolution is a flawed theory and doesn't work. The fact that humans are here just proves that, well, at one times humans came into existence. People just have a hard time agreeing on how. There are many gods out there, but a god is all powerful. So religions with many gods can be ruled out. So that leaves Judaism, Christianity, and Islam (all have one totally powerful god). The thing that sets Christianity apart is the miracles it contains. The miracles act as God's seal. Whenever a king would seal something he used a seal that was unique and unlike anyone elses. The miracles contained in the Bible also glorify God, not the performer or an object, which is what sets them apart from other religions "miracles". That's about all I can say about that. I Don't Have Enough Faith To Be An Aetheist goes a lot deeper into this issue and explains it a lot better than I can. I lkie it how we can slitl unrsdeantd waht pleope are trnyig to say eevn if the lteters aern't in the rihgt odrer. Aazimng huh?
relgion is based on faith not facts... if u guys need facts to believe in something that created us and the world then give up... relgion is not based on facts... if u want facts then go on being an atheist... no need to ask ppl who r faithful to back themselves up with facts... b/c thts what FAITH means... look it up... but if u cant trust nething u cant factually prove or see ur going to have a hard time in life... and if u dont want to believe dont... if u dont want to have faith dont... why am i hear if i care not to argue... i dont no ill be leaving KTHXBIA
Evolution is a flawed theory? So scientific comparisons of bone structures, speciation, mutations, adaptations, and many other things are not enough to show that evolution works? It doesn't work? Just because there was a small chance for life to start (which I agree that it may have been started by God) doesn't mean that live couldn't have evolved just as evolution proposes. I don't see the flaws. Humans just came into existence? They just popped in after awhile? No, they evolved from lower life-forms. EDIT: Boyle, if you were brought up to believe that the boogey man was real, would you still believe in it? Would you just accept the boogey man as fact without any kind of thought to it? You are just blindly believing everything without question. Yes, religion is not "based" on facts, but it can go along with them. Atheists are not the only ones who use facts. By your reasoning, atheists are the only informed people on the planet since "if u want facts then go on being an atheist". WHAT?
Dont' get mad at me for replying unto this topic with such a short and unresearched answer like some others here have but how do you know that god didn't merely create these things to happen and that maybe they are really just illusions created by him? What says that mans laws are correct if god created set illusions to make man believe he was right? There is no rightful proof that science works, just because data matches up in our eyes doesn't mean that it is truly correct because its base on so many other variables that could have easily been altered by god or been an illusion all along. This is just my two cents on the topic. I may reply in more detail if I see fit. Edit: Also, I am not athiest just so nobody gets that idea. I am just putting out my idea on the topic and am not suggesting that god would manipulate us but if he did do something like what I state then it may have been for a greater purpose beyond human understandings.
You can't create an "illusion" of correctness. Scientists have proven that the laws we have work all the time, using science. So even if we are just God's toys, the world we live in is not right merely because "God gives us that illusion". Things work for a reason. Furthermore, if things only work because of that illusion, then how would anything work at all (for real)? REPLY TO YOUR EDIT: So God is putting us under an illusion (hypothetically) for reasons we cannot understand. Forgive me, but I seem to be missing the rationality here.
What about aztec and mayan gods, along with others. That would mean miracles they thought happened wouldn't have been because they wouldn't have existed as there can only be one as you said. What is the jewish god, christian god, and muslim god were all different. Then two religons would have to be wrong by what you said. Not sure where I was going with that post, I forget. Oh well I'll leave it at that and edit it later when I remember. EDIT: Cihkcnes are aewosme.
Okay I should probably clarify. A lot of the things evolution teaches are true like adaptation, survival of the fittest, similar bone structures are true. Just like a lot of religions teach "good" values. But the main "jist" of them is wrong. Having said that I do believe in microevolution, but not macroevolution. With the bone structures, that is true. But if you think about it, all organisms on the earth live in the same atmospere, with the same gravity, etc... Therefore only certain structures will function on earth. Other structures wouldn't be able to survive. Therefore we should have somewhat similar bone structures like what has been shown. The bone structures could also be a sign of them having the same creator. I'm not saying that humans just popped into existance (spontaneous generation), I'm saying that humans at one time or another and in one way or another showed up on earth. Something or somebody (I going with somebody) had to cause that. I'll agree that religion is based mostly on faith, but there are facts throughout Christianity that can help prove its reliability. And Eons, if you believe God could have started life why do you need evolution to show how all the lifeforms started? ----- Jews believe in the Father God (maybe the Holy Spirit?), but they don't believe that Jesus was the son of God. Muslims believe in Allah (God), but they just believe Jesus was a prophet, a good man. Christians believe that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all equal parts of God. I'm pretty sure that's right, but I don't study all religions so if I'm wrong somebody could correct me. Cihkcnes are aewosme (lol) --- I'm pretty sure I'm not living an illusion. God can do anything, but I'm pretty sure this is a real world with real people He created. But, the scientific theory can't even prove itself.
Your post is mighty confusing. Macroevolution is just a "group" of microevolutions put together. Evolution is an explanation to life's progress, not a set of "values". What is wrong about the "jist" of evolution? Of course only certain bone structures will work on Earth; otherwise they will not survive. Also, there are many different kinds of species with different bone structures. Yes, they may be "similar" to a certain extent (again, maybe because of intelligent design) but that just goes to show that species evolved to become different to one another based on environment. Third point: Yes, someone (or something) must have caused everything to start, but that just explains the start. What happened later is explained by evolution. And good grief, evolution doesn't show how life started (i.e. the Big Bang); it shows how it progressed.
Sorry about that. I'll try to clarify. The "jist" of macroevolution is that a new species could have come from a totally different species (ex. a frog from a fish). I don't think that macroevolution is just a "group" of microevolutions put together. You keep breeding different dogs to get different breeds of dogs (microevolution). And the more dogs you breed the more microevolutions you do, but you're still not going to get a cat; just more dogs. Good grief (sarcasm), the Big Band doesn't show how life started; it showed how the universe began (to an extent). --- Here's an intresting quote: "In grammar school they taught me that a frog turning into a prince was a fairy tale. In the university they taught me that a frog turning into a prince was a fact!" - Ron Carlson
So life didn't come from the Big Bang (which, according to you created the universe but no life) but from... God? After the universe's creation. Macroevolution is "impossible" because it refers to changes above the "species" level. That would be a dramatic and sudden change in the entire species. However, through many microevolutions, a "macroevolution" can be observed through a group of many small changes (i.e. a new animal arising from an older species - macroevolution - through a series of smaller changes - microevolution.)
For one. Saying that I can't create an illusion of that magnitude is correct but if you were implying that god can't then wouldn't that statement be false considering that nobody truly knows the limits of gods powers, if there are any, except god? You say that what humans/people have "proven" is right "using" science. How can you say that the laws have worked all the time? Considering how long god has been around I wonder how many times something that we say is right has gone wrong? And maybe that things did occasionally go differently than todays laws say back way in the beginning of time when things/events that would relate to that may have went unrecorded. Anyways, I'm not expert on science but I'm pretty sure that god could make things work while our laws still managed to be wrong if he wanted. And maybe our laws aren't wrong but only brush the littlest amount of light on what is really going on to the point were it seems that it is possible to be skeptical about whether or not science is correct or god has created an illusion in occasional places. As an example of how he could possibly make things work in ways that would prove our laws wrong except from our perspective through an illusion couldn't he also change our perspective of the world. I believe that if he wanted he could possibly have a world that functioned completely differently from our own if humans/people saw everything from a perspective that he gave us. We may see things one way and have created laws and theories about how it works and why certain things happen even though really we are in a completely different world that we cannot see, hear, sense, etc. and that only god knows of. If that were true than he would have most likely nummed our senses to that world because it lies were our illusion would have set us. And god, being omnisient could see/monitor both. Another way this could happen: Perhaps when Adam and Eve were banished from Eden our perspective of the world and how it functions was completely altered. Then again, if god did do this there could be a completely different way to it that we cannot even begin to comprehend. Sorry for the long post...
Yes. God had to cause the Big Bang because there was nothing to cause the "bang". God also had to create life after the univers's creation because it would have been impossible for life to form by itself. Refer back to my original post if you're still confused on why the formation of life and the universe was impossible by itself.
Are you saying the no other religion has any miracles? Also what do you define as a miracle? Well of course everything that we discover/figure out is limited by human perception. If we can never sense a god that puts us under a spell than there is no point in trying to prove him. Think about it this way, if we can never find out if we are indeed under this spell then there is no point trying to disprove science by saying, "everything might be an illusion". If it works for us and our universe and we can never break the spell why bring it up? Also is everyone forgetting M-Theory??
@ Omelet Your post actually backs me up. There was a slim chance for life at the start of the universe. However, the "building blocks" for life were on the newly created planets; so through a similar method used by Stanley Miller, God created life through the Big Bang. In other words, he made the universe so it had the ingredients for life, and then set it all up so that after the universe was made, life would start on its own. Hence the "intelligence". (God)
Well of course everything that we discover/figure out is limited by human perception. If we can never sense a god that puts us under a spell than there is no point in trying to prove him. Think about it this way, if we can never find out if we are indeed under this spell then there is no point trying to disprove science by saying, "everything might be an illusion". If it works for us and our universe and we can never break the spell why bring it up? I believe that we have stumbled upon an agreement then.
Duck your point about the illusion is a possibility. However, that would just mean that religion is pointless. Why would God have us worship him if it's all a facade? Why even discuss it? EDIT: Haha ninja, I totally forgot about String and M-Theory; good point.
Well things like String theory and M-theory are explaining why the big bang happened, and what was before it. Also just for the record you believe god to be supernatural, yes? What agreement?
A miracle is a divine act, of supernatural power, that never fails, is immediate, lasts, and gives glory to God. I can't say if any other religions have or don't have miracles. I'd have to know why, for who, what, and other pieces of information to decide whether or not something is a miracle. Keep in mind that there are: Anomalies - freaks of nature, of physical power, that is a natural event with a pattern. Magic - sleight of hand, of human power, that is unnatural and mancontrolled. Psychosomatic - mind over matter, of mental power, that requires faith; and fails for some sickness. Satanic Signs - evil power, of psychic power, that is evil, falsehood, occult, and limited. Providence - prearranged, of divine power, that is naturally explained, and of spiritual context. ------ @ Eon I still believe that the chances for life and the evolution of life is impossible. ------ @ ninja what do you mean by supernatural?
Care to justify that statement? Do you not believe that God created the universe? What I am taking from your statement is that you think God was able to create the universe, yet you do not think that he is able to overcome the "chances". ... Is he not divine? Is he not a god? You know, there are people who think that there is a slim chance of God existing, yet you believe in him. However, you contradict yourself by not believing that he could not overcome the slim "chances" that you have placed before him. You place your faith in God, yet you do not have faith in his abilities.