I really don't think it is that important that it truly affects the outcome of the debate, but if it worries you sooo much, Ill edit it...
You are smarter than 99.99% of all species that exist or have ever existed. Learning is a simple process when it is something you love and appreciate. Put that gray matter to use! Don't immediately look at yourself as a moron and expect someone else to come up with the answers for you. You have as much potential as Einstein, Feynman, or Ed Witten. The question isn't whether you are smart enough, it is whether you have the drive or not.
that is true. I have the drive to learn, although only some stuff, and therin lies my problem. But back on topic. My soccer team would always pray before a game and I would be holding hands looking down not having a clue what to say and everyone was reciting something about giving strength to win. Now sometimes we win and sometimes we lose. Now If god were to exist, would he only like us on certain days? anwser our prayers only on certain days? Its illogical to me. Thats another reason I don't believe in god.
Maybe he didn't answer those prayers in the first place and you won on your own steam. Or possibly more people prayed on the other team. Though, I don't think god would operate like the former. It's not the best arguement to use (though it is one).
Oops forgot something. Thats what I said to them, we won those games because we played well not because we prayed and one person said something like the other team prayed more and I was just like how could that possibly make sense. If things were chosen by how much you prayed, then I would be in a cardboard box and not typing at a computer and skill would never come into play.
1st point- Do you not consider how blind that belief is? Scientists can't quite work it our, so it must of been god? I find that amazing, to be honest. Scientists don't know everything. They have some backing for the big ban theory. (The Red Shift.) What exactly is this belief that god created the universe based on? Because, if God created the universe, who created gog? Theists tend to say 'You can't get something out of nothing' as their argument for god, but they seem to forget that god just seemed tio appear.... 2nd point- Why do people pray, if some of you theists don't believe that it does anything anyway? Theism is so blind, that theists even believe different things as to what god does/does not do...
Why? Well why not? If scientists can't work it out, then why not believe in God? However "blind" this may seem to you, it is perfectly plausible to a theist. (Neither of us can win this point, because it is a matter of opinion.) Also, you seem to think that theists are (or at least should be) homogenous in their beliefs. If they were, then there wouldn't be that many religions! Of course people have their own opinions, it is what causes us to learn, invent, or debate like we are now. Perhaps you are the one who is blind to the fact that any theist can have their own point of view.
I would just like to point out that god created us with free will, and wants all to turn to Christianity. I believe he is torn whenever a Islamic terrorist dies. He can't answer every prayer without taking away our free will. EDIT: I won't be here to answer for a while, I'm headed off for church.
Science can work out anything in the natural world given time (In theory). I think people should believe in god, though. It is a reflection of our nature and creativity. What I don't like are bureaucracies between us and god. Especially when they impede the progress of science, philosophy, human rights, and man kind itself. To quote Pat Condell, "Actually, my problem is not with God, but with God's little helpers, the ones who take it upon themselves to police the rest of us on his behalf. These people give religion a bad name, which, given its history, takes some doing. They wear their ignorance as a badge of honour, and they hold very strong opinions about what other people should think. Plus they’ve managed to insinuate themselves into a position where their beliefs are given equal weight with real ideas, and are allowed to affect our lives in all sorts of ridiculous ways."
True, like people who want to ban some things because it is against their religion. Example: Galileo being forced to renounce his findings because they went against the church. That kind of censorship should not be a part of religion. Religion should simply be an opinion about certain things (creation or whatever).
You do not know that, so why say it? Thats what i don't get about thesists. Somone said that i do not understand that they have their own opinions. Of cousre i do, its just that saying god DID do something, is by no means correct, because they do not KNOW.
But that's not what religion is, nor will it ever be. It is absolute, indisputable fact and any resistance is heresy and serves no purpose and should, therefore, be annihilated. This line of thinking even seeps over to the god they serve and clouds his thinking and judgment to the point of declaring holy wars, fatwas, inquisitions, genocide, etc. Agnosticism. It works.
Hole in one Nitrous! The definition of 'Agnosticism' is not believing something that you can never know, right?
It ought to be that way (not saying it is that way, just wishful thinking). I don't see why there are some who feel the need to push their beliefs onto others. This is what I was responding to dom. And of course no one knows if their religion is correct. That is why there are so many religions. No one (who is not a bigot) is saying they are 100% correct. Religion is just a matter of opinion. (Well, that's what it is, but people turn it into this big deal.) Agnosticism is not, "There is no God because we cannot know". It's more like, "There might be a God, but who knows?"
It is a matter of opinion, but it is also fun to argue about. ^_^ O.k, let me ask you soemthing, something which i have never really recieved a decent answer for form any theist. Why? What is actually the point in religion? God will never be proved, we pretty much know for a fact that prayers do not do anything. So why? I just don't see why you don't just live your life, instead of worrying about going to church and praying to someone who is not going to answer.
It is fun to argue about, I was just saying that people star holy wars and crap for their religion. =P I don't worry about going to church. It's a nice thing to go to every Sunday. The parables are nice stories that teach you a lesson; the music is uplifting too (but I really, really, hate that Christian rock crap cuz it's cheesy). I think that if you do the right thing (help people, donate, etc.) then you will go to Heaven. So as long as I don't commit any felonies and I'm helping folks, I'm all good. It's just like following everyday rules but with a reward. The only people worrying about stuff are the bad guys. Oh yeah, I use God as a means to justify the afterlife and how everything began.
And there's nothing wrong with that. I just think scientific discoveries shouldn't be ignored if they conflict with how you think god created the universe.
Yes, but why? The afterlife? Eh? Whats the point in an afterlife? If you have an afterlife, it pretty much means you never die, which is a torture in itself, why would a God want people to suffer form eternal life? And why use god to justify how everything began? Surely you might instead believe in something that had SOME degree of logic to it? For example, the big bang theory has the read shift to back it up, etc? You can't say God created 'the start' (whatever that start may be) Until you consider what may of created god? If god is real, then god is the start, so how could he of created himself....
I use scientific discoveries to help explain things in my religion. (Like how did God create the universe? Answer: The Big Bang.) Dom: The reason people think of a God in the first place is because of "intelligent design". Something as complex as life surely cannot be so random can it? A creator (whomever he/she/it/they may be) was most likely present because of the way things work out. Who is this creator? God. But if you would like to believe that life is random, then that is your prerogative. =) Would an afterlife be torture? Maybe so. Maybe it's reincarnation. Whatever it is though, God is behind it.