The answer I would give is sting theory or M-theory. Both of which explain why (this particular) energy could have always existed because it is not bound by time in the dimension it exists.
But isn't science really only able to explain (or more accurately, 'define') natural phenomena? Yet, God would be supernatural, correct? Given that God is supernatural, (again, hypothesis) would he not reside outside of science's explainability? (Convenient? Maybe. Logical? I think so.) It seems to me that the most adequate place to begin the argument of God's existence would start with the subject of people; "Is there more to life?" "Do we have souls?" "Why do we feel this or that?" Am I making any sense? Rather than discerning God from scientific evidence, maybe we should start with the human mind.
I am atheist, too. The often used argument of Christians is : Proof it. (argument? erm...) I've once met a child that said that the tectonic plates do not exist, and that the devil creates earthquakes. I said I am atheist, and he said that I was unmoral and that I would be satanist. When I said that I do not believe in the devil as well, he already left the game. Poor child. The only reasons why most people believ in god/ any other religion is because of their parents or the community they get born into. I do not think that someone who never hears a word about religion will believe in god. And about the "proof it" argument, you religious fanatics out there: Proof that the flying spaghetti monsters does not exists. Or proof that this does not proof that god does not exists: (E2D-PCDM)*PCDM*100E=2CPFG
I've never had a religon and I've never wanted to have one. It bores me, to tell you the truth. I would still be the same exact person even if I went to church, so I am saving myself an hour every sunday. I don't believe anything exists until there are actual facts that can proove something exists. For example, if a photographer tooki a picture of god, then I would believe he exists.
"Atheism vs. Christianity" is not so much the topic here. Christianity is one small part of the debate and certainly fervent proselytes are obnoxious, but we want to dig past that into the broader conflict. Not true. There are plenty of things that are "proved" yet people still dispute. You've all heard of Dr. Michael Ruse, right? He is a rather eloquent speaker for evolutionary theory, and is well respected in his field. However, even he notes something strange about people and this worldview: "Evolution is promoted by it's practitioners as more than mere science. Evolution is promulgated as an ideology, a secular religion - a full-fledged alternative to Christianity, with meaning and morality. I am an ardent evolutionist and an ex-Christian, but I must admit that in this one complaint the literalists are absolutely right. Evolution is a religion. This was true of evolution in the beginning, and it is true of evolution still today." -Michael Ruse, National Post, May 13, 2000, B-3 What are your thoughts on Dr. Ruse's comments? Honestly, I would agree with him that many people forget logic and reason to settle on an absolute view of things, making them no more irrational in the eyes of Atheism than religious peoples. Thoughts? Comments?
I think you misread what I said. I never said I believe in evolution. In fact that is the point, as of now, I have not seen enough proof of anything and believe in neither religon nor evolution.
Here's what I think happens when we die. 1) We shut down and seize to exist, just like a electronic shutting down, we simply turn off and there is nothing. 2) Instantly we become something new that is alive, whether it be on the same planet or not, or single celled or multi. 3) Our energy escapes our body since it can no longer opperate and we either become conscious of our self and can travel anywhere or like number one, nothing. 4) Prehaps there is a after life in which we travel to. Either way, this thing that created us and everything, a god if you will, doesn't watch over ALL of us, obviously. Or maybe there are more gods/creators, one for each planet in which consious life is on. Who knows really? We wont know until it happens to us.
I'm sorry! I really didn't intend that to be a direct response to you. I guess it didn't come out so clear. Anyway, the evolution part was more of a general observation of what seems like a common trend. Sorry if I came across as accusing or anything. Actually, the first part is deism, an increasingly common belief. The latter is pantheism which is ore complex than most people give it credit for. Good point to add as this really seems to broaden our thoughts on theism.
Don't worry, you weren't accusing. Thats the one thing I really like about having a religon. I never get accused with the stuff. I've said jewish prayers, christian prayers and all of that when I stay at friends houses, and it doesn't matter to me.
when we die, we either..... stop existing... no thoughts, no movement, no memory, NOTHING its like you were never alive... like the period between when you go to bed and wake up... but there are no dreams... or we will be brought back to a paradice earth that has very thing and we get along. or we will walk the earth as a spirt... wanting nothing but revenge...
Atheists Through History Famous Atheists throughout history: "The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma." - Abraham Lincoln, American president (1809-1865). "I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism." -Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist "All thinking men are atheists." - Ernest Hemingway, American author (1899-1961). "I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies. Lighthouses are more helpful then churches." -Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor "My view is that if there is no evidence for it, then forget about it." -Carl Sagan, American astronomer and author "What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy." -James Madison, American president and political theorist (1751-1836). "Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days? The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it." -John Adams, U.S. President, Founding Father of the United States "I believe in God, only I spell it Nature." -Frank Lloyd Wright, American architect (1869-1959). "It (the Bible) is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies." -Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain" "And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors." - Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat - Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823 "I do not believe in the divinity of Christ, and there are many other of the postulates of the orthodox creed to which I cannot subscribe." - William Howard Taft, U.S. President "I cannot believe in the immortality of the soul.... No, all this talk of an existence for us, as individuals, beyond the grave is wrong. It is born of our tenacity of life – our desire to go on living … our dread of coming to an end." - Thomas Edison, American inventor (1847-1931). "The whole thing is so patently infantile, so foreign to reality, that to anyone with a friendly attitude to humanity it is painful to think that the great majority of mortals will never be able to rise above this view of life. Religion is comparable to a childhood neurosis." -Sigmund Freud, Austrian physician and pioneer psychoanalyst (1856-1939). Other well known Atheists include: Woody Allen Eddie Vedder Bill Gates Warren Buffett Dave Matthews Christopher Reeve Michael Stipe Kurt Vonnegut Robert Frost Lance Armstrong Lewis Black Richard Branson George Carlin David Cross Ani DiFranco Jodie Foster Ricky Gervais Penn Jillette Angelina Jolie Bruce Lee James Lipton John Malkovich Barry Manilow Todd McFarlane Jack Nicholson Ron Reagan Jr. Keanu Reeves Howard Stern
Thank you for that long list of utterly useless information. Shall I form a "rebuttal" by finding quotes from equally well-known Christians? Please, debate with points, arguments, and facts, not with the opinions of people mass media has smiled upon.
Yes Please Yes, please. Just because you can't find a point to the post doesn't mean there is not a point. I am exposing the views of prominent American figures when it comes to religion and theism, including many of our founding fathers. I think if you formed a list of quotes from well respected Americans praising Theism, that would be a good counter point. Members that the read the two different posts could then decide who they relate with more and that may help to solidify or change an opinion. Is that not the point of a debate? I don't understand the accusation of quotes being irrelevant or useless to a debate.
Dude I'm so sorry... I can't resist HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Even if that list had a chance of being useful to the discussion.... you might have left that name off. Maybe it's just me but he comes off as being about as bright as a particularly dim cave reptile. Again I apologize but I just lol'd. Otherwise, that's a nice collection of quotes.
Should Have Your right. I probably should have left that name off the list. I didn't think it through. I guess I pulled a "Keanu".
Nice list.. WOuld like to see the context you pulled them from.. WOuld make them much more worthy because In truth Do you even know what a Quaker is ? and When he states Christian Dogma? Because I say it quite often.. and I am not an Atheist... quite the far... but besides that... Founding fathers being of the faith Does show a point of one thing... If we were lead by a totally different' group of people during the American Revolution.. we were very very happen to have a totally different nation...I mean Abraham Lincoln Led our nation after it was formed... But to carve a nation from nothing with a pen isn't as simple... Now Lets compare the group that lead the French Revolution in the 1780's-1790's right before the 1812 wars....with the French and the rest of the world... Not only was there mass murdering and a very very lost government... it took a very long while for the nation to recover... AND again with the Russian Revolution.. Which I dare to bring up that horrible fact of an IDEal Atheistic...Nation... I mean Communisim works wonders...(even was first founded in a church) But thats not the point is it.. THE POINT IS SO My point of view is INvailed because I beilve in something while you do not? I feel that we should have this ... game of FAIR advantage ... I mean Athiest want to point in and make an issue of God having the power to do something.. I totally agree with that ..BUT MY point IS>>> that WHy is humans so Evil and corrupt.. Most people blame Religious organizations... and I agree some times.. they can be.. BUT the TRUe faith is what Makes my Faith.. in God... A mans word is what he uses to tell otheres what he feels and thinks... But in all truth... what you feel is quite directly what you feel and what you feel alone... Standing as an object 3 people can see 3 different things.. but truth of truth there is only one thing... they are looking at... Now It is perfectly alright to say ..SINCE these people in the Faith of being fair and Just .. helped form a nation we have today... NOW I agree Enistien helped us win WW2 as well a wonderful collection of Scientist... on the Manhatton Project..But By no means is that the same course of actions as Laying foundations for a new nation... Like Ben Franklin said,..."Nations Come into this world Like Bastards..., with Not a mother or father to take care of them...." Now Since we have a nation based of of LIberty and Freedom ... It is unlawful for me To pray publically IN my ROTC unit... I can't have a momment of Piece in my Class ... NOw I give you the freedom to do what eever your hearts Desire..but I can't have my MOMENT OF SIlience!... Now Tell me with a smart Aetheisitic WOrld we live in (or live with)... WHy can't I have my freedoms... {3 rant for the day...} NOw... Links please...
You know I often wonder why the founding fathers are referenced so often. Why do we have to steer our nation as they intended? Why does what they intended matter so much? Not so much of an argument, as an observation. I hear that group referenced more than makes any sense. But anyway, the idea isn't to be an atheistic nation, as atheism isn't religiously neutral.
Mainly because they were brilliant men with ideas that transcend generations. Our constitution is one if the oldest still in use. Atheism IS religiously neutral. Antitheism is not. There is a difference. Your freedom to swing your arm ends where my nose begins. To say you can't pray is not promoting atheism, it is skipping over the idea that theism or anti-theism even exist. Now I'm sure before and after training you would be free to pray but during training they may be trying to make you focus. They can not publicly endorse prayer and they cannot publicly deny prayer. Theism is the endorsement. Anti-theism is the denial. And atheism is the standpoint that you are free, thinking individual capable of making your own decisions, so long as they do not infringe upon the rights or well being of another person. We believe in everything you do except god. Seeing someone pray does not offend me. Driving past churches does not enrage me. Though, I may feel people are misguided in their beliefs, I nor atheism denies them of it because atheism does not have a doctrine which has the capability of denying them. For instance, if in your religion it was custom to hold up a reflective piece of metal every hour on the hour, would it be wrong to deny you this right if you were in combat? -- Atheistic world? Last I checked the Republican party of Jesus has been the majority in the executive branch since Regan.