If you believe that life was created through the natural process of evolution, that everything came from nothing, or that shaking a box with a broken watch in it will create a working one - you do not belong in this debate. Alternatively after reading what I just wrote if you thought I was supporting the creationist arguement - you don't belong in this debate. Understand the other side's arguement before attempting to undermine it. Just a heads up! If you disprove evolution, carbon dating, the big bang, or the fossil record's accuracy - you don't belong on forge hub. Go get your nobel prize(s).
"If you"... prove... "evolution, carbon dating, the big bang, or the fossil record's accuracy - you don't belong on forge hub. Go get your Nobel prize(s)"... LOL... "Understand the other side's argument before attempting to undermine it"... Though it is not wise to tell them that your planning it. I have to really wonder how in the case 1+1 = 3 is already written off as wrong? IN some of your cases you seen it equal 2,..but in a case I could make it equal 3... Numbers lie... they only show a result not all the possible solutions. First off Scientific Basis? ... Alright Second Pegasi your making a wonderful point in saying that creationism is not done with its argument in dealing with disproving evolution. But in the same context I have been left with not a single working and understanding on how carbon dating works... believe it or not Nitrous passed me a link to a HOW IT WORKS.com site ... anyone ever use the link and back up that it works? Or have we just gotten to that point that since he showed a link it much mean that Carbon dating works? More over, I am a creationist by Choice. I love how its made in school that I have to answer in my chemisty class that the earth is 17 billion years(IF YOU DARE CORRECT ME, THATS BESIDES THE POINT), old as apose to what I believe it to be. I love the same fact that when I ask the same question on how Carbon dating works I get a child answer of its matterial that halfs, and halfs, and halfs, till its all gone, but for some odd reason I don't get any real working formula. And I know this is a bit mean Nitrous but The link you gave me wasn't very useful. All I want to get at is stated at the begining of this post... Proving Evloution. I'm tired of it a forced learned Doctire. I understand that is a very well, very understood material but its based on one view point and its almost considered a forced oppion. Back in the 1950s I understood why the Ape Trials occurred. It was very forceful of Schools to teach Creation in School, but I am really getting to a point of challenging the state into saying that I'm forced to belied in a Theory... As well! Its almost Sad that the same Idea of doctrine has caused everything to flip. Which in the same case of is BELIEF!... Though I very well understand each of you in saying its your opinion. You can believe it and it all roots down to something that you agree with. Can't I have that right? I know this is not much of a buy able argument. O poor Christian they what to believed in a Fairy so Let him... Why not Grow up and See the real world as it is. Well I am trying to show you is there is less power in knowing and more in understanding what you need to know. I mean in all understanding I would rather know about my family today then my Greeeeeeeeeeeeat great... ... You should have gotten the point by now, Parents. I Understand all living things are connected. By any means does evolution disprove God? Or this Idea of a Living Foce as it where. Your arguing over the same Path of time just which roads that took us to get us here... where ever here is ..is up to you. I am not trying to pick on any one here but I have to say why does a Creationist have to ask to understand how Carbon dating works as apose to be forced to believe it simply because another man finds it true? O'Ockams Razor's.... Is it not less thought to think it is, then it is not? It is. > It is not.
I didn't provide a link. Your entire post was a nonsensical rambling of incoherent ideals and "lols." I will say this though, you are not being forced to believe anything. If you don't want to believe in evolution, that is your decision. The worst that will happen is failing a science class, which shouldn't affect you too much. I don't think a science major will be your thing.
It's a metaphor. It's meant to be a simple and easy way of expressing something more complicated. I don't care if you can make 1+1 equal 3, it's not the point. My point is that by disproving evolution, you don't prove creationism. These are plenty of other theories, and they all could be just as right, according to your arguments. I really couldn't understand most of your post but from what I do understand, I agree with Nitrous- nobody is forcing you to believe in evolution, you have the choice to believe it, the class just asks you to know it. The reason why you have to know this material is because it is the only belief that is accepted in those fields, because it is the only one with evidence. If you want to know how carbon dating works, figure it out. Less than 30 seconds on google, and I have already found out how.
I rest my case ...though I may make no sense to you I know that simply because you think your right must mean your right. .... If your only on Google for your research I'm amazed... and BTW Nitrous I hope your happy I did not fail the class. I passed it quite well. I also am Interesting in much of Chemistry and Engineering ... but enough about me.. I'm done with this topic for the second time. 1+1=3 PM me I can prove it!
I'm not questioning your powers of mental thinking, only remarking upon the paradox of a creationist going into a field that requires some basic knowledge of science. GO43R if you would provide evidence for your claims I would consider 'debating' you. So far it's just be lols and run on sentences. You need to ask yourself, can a scientific illiterate debate science? If you still want to debate after reading this, these topics should be your focus point: Plate Tectonics, Thermodynamics, Continental drift, all radio-active dating techniques, fossil record, and "evilution." Pst-1+1 will always = 2
Okay I really prefer to stay of topics like this in real life, but this is a forum so what the hell here it goes: -If Athiest are right: Athiest - You guys get to be nothing forever Christians - We get to be nought forever to -If Christians are right: Athiest - You guys get to burn in hell forever ... plz Dun hate meh ='[ Christians - We get to go to heaven =] (If we were good enough) So Athiest are lose/lose And Christians are lose/win So why would you pick the side that can't win? *Also this can be recreated with almost any religion, not just christianity, and its basically the same thing.
Logic? The last sentence of your post negates your whole win/lose premise. Since all of the religions of the world are pitted against each other, who's to say Christianity is the correct religion. If any other religion other than Christianity turns out to be right, that will be a lose/lose scenario for you. If your are saying that picking any of the hundreds of religions available on our planet is a good way to hedge your bet, than I guess could agree with that. But I feel like there is another category of "win", and it involves having a view of the universe that is closest to the truth. I would much rather have a realistic understanding of the universe around me during the time I am actually alive. Because if when I die, and there is nothing, I'll rack that up as a win for me because I had a much closer relationship to the truth of the universe while I was around. So I will adjust your chart as follows: If Christianity is right: Atheist - Burn in hell Christians - Happy-Time in Heaven Any Other Religion - Burn in Hell -If Any Other Religion is right: Atheist - Burn in hell Christians - Burn in hell Any Other Religion - The correct one gets Happy-Time in Heaven -If Atheists are right: Atheist - Nothing Forever - Understood The Universe Christians - Nothing Forever Any Other Religion - Nothing Forever Atheist are lose/lose/win Christians are lose/lose/win Any Other Religion is lose/lose/win It is lose/lose/win for everybody, so I would much rather spend my time focusing on being alive, rather than trying to pretend I know what happens after I die.
Wait what? Eternal life is a win? Eternal anything is a lose. Sure it would be awesome to extend my life 100 years, 1,000 years, 100,000 years. But what about the next million? Billion? TRILLION years and you still have eternity left with NO end in sight nor will it ever be! Eternal life is a curse, without death there is no reason to do things. Eternal life would rob you of your purpose, your reason, your every desire. And this would remain for eternity and an eternity after that and an eternity after that. I strongly recommend you realize your mortality. Do not left the fear of your inevitable death make you waste your only mortal life pursuing phantasms and delusions. Look at yourself in the mirror. For billions of years the particles that stare back at you were scattered amongst the universe. They have temporarily collected to form this one impressive instant. Rejoice in the short time you have been given before they disapte from whence they came. Our lives are finite. This gives us meaning, purpose, and urgency. Live life today, savor it. Carpe Diem.
I apologise in advance for cutting and rearranging your post Nitrous, but my arguments are strangely backward in nature... As far as I understand the Christian perception (as if such a thing could ever be tied down in a singularity), eternal life is a somewhat misplaced description. Life after death, speaking in terms of heaven, is not supposed to be a continuation of life as we understand it, but a further plain free from pain and hardship, mental, physical or emotional. If the basis of the soul is to be accepted then considerations like human mental capacity and restrictions would not apply, and it would be possible to exist forever in this happy state without the problems of human mental conditioning to a finite lifetime. Whilst I personally couldn't disagree more, to argue in these terms it does stand as a feasible line of reasoning in favour if eternal, happy life after death. Again, but.. The previous arguments regarding the pro's and con's either way is a little thin. From where I stand, living life as a devout christian would reduce my percieved quality of life, thus giving a downside to life itself. For those that take solace in their beliefs I can see perfectly how it is a positive aspect to their lives, benefiting them from day to day giving them purpose and a sense of direction and right in the world, things which I myself often crave. I see myself as living life in the way which can bring me the most happiness, and if I am wrong then it was my decision and I made it based on what makes the most sense to me. God may punish me for not believing in him (I take issue with this, since it seems unjust to me to create beings with free will and decision and demand that they believe and respect you based on trust and faith, but that's another issue entirely), but by giving humanity free will he gave them the right to choose, to make their own mistakes. If he exists, I choose to take this right and use it in the way I see as most beneficial to me. (Not to mention the holes pointed out by whoever mentioned the implications of other religions, I forget who it was and am not using quick reply)
Our physical bodies and the feeling of ourselves would dissolve in death. Our "souls" then rise or somehow transport themselves to a realm to heaven. But is that me? Even if it a direct reflection of all my actions and sins does it really identify me? It would seem to be a trinity (mind, body, spirit), one may reflect itself to a specific person as being me but I am never truly myself unless I retain all the pieces. My friends identify my face, you identify my mind, god identifies my soul, but I identify myself as all 3 (assuming the soul does exist). Why does one take precedence in the afterlife? My mind or mental state is what I'm using right now. When I cease and my soul goes to heaven (assuming I have one) my mind is still trapped in my brain, my flesh. It cannot sustain itself without the flesh. My soul would be a mirror image of me and may very well act just like me (like the clone in total recall(?), The Schwarzenegger movie) and perform the same ways I would but it is still just a reflection and never truly will be me. That is my main concern with an afterlife.
Well even in that movie he (referring to the clone) Wondered if he had a Soul. Its quite funny you wonder the same thing. I think the spirit of you...isn't a clone of you at all. But close to how your remembered. Like its a combination of the body and mind. He was a good person did the right thing, but also referring to his mind was smart and quick to have a reply...or Debated with the wise of his day. I mean your wondering what your soul is. But every one around you already knows what it is. Or that is at least to my POV. O dear how did I get back into this debate....?
The soul is never explicitly defined but it is always intrinsically active and unaware to the consciousness of the holder. I digress, it still isn't me. The soul, as you stated it, is still a mirror of who I was but it wasn't me.
So you mean all the actions and thoughts you had are not yours? SO all your life you haven't made a single choice? I mean we leave a mark on every thing we touch and see and do... and possibly Think. I argue fully that spirit of yours Is yours weather you like it or not. So the spirit is unaware of the body and the mind...though it was created by it? It is with the body and in the mind at the same time..though it knows nothing and did nothing... I argue again what is your spirit? I mean I know very well what my spirit is, or it at least knows me. That is for sure my thoughts.
In my eyes there is a god but it wasn't a snap and the world was made.Evolution after a simple creation,Well this is the most logical thing to me. Man wasn't made he was evolved.And for earth he took his sweet billions of years making carving her out slowly. (This drives a bit off topic...) I am an odd kind of person I over think anything told to me such as why would god craves warship,If he is the all mighty one who know of how in portent he is he should want know warship.That is why I believe god doesn't want your warship but you thanking him only once every while
Right now we are debating each other with our minds. Our soul, as you presented it, would be taking notes and would become a mirror of that belief we hold. However, just because something looks like me, talks like me, and has the same beliefs as me does not mean it is me. Our minds are something that will perish, I think we can both agree to that after reading Pegasi's post. The feeling of one self (consciousness) is directly linked to the flesh, which means it will not ascend to heaven. The feeling that you are a nice person, the feeling that you are a Christian, and the feeling you are an intellectual are left behind as the soul ascends to its eternal purpose. The soul, though it can be accurate down to every nanosecond of thought, is still not you. It is a replication of you, a mosaic of all your thoughts and feelings, and would deceive even the closest of friends but if it talked to you, you would not be convinced it was you. It may be a part of you but it isn't you. You are you, not your soul. To use an analogy, a board, a nail, and a hammer form to make a deck. A hammer, however, is not a deck. The use of all three form the deck. The implications of this are that you and I will experience death, while the soul (a reflection of us) will experience eternal paradise or damnation.
Because we have no need to keep evolving because we are not in a disadvantage we have no predators,No temperature issues,and no lack of any thing vital.In fact we are the lead spices on earth,We should be devolving instead of evolving....
That's incorrect. We as a species are always evolving. We are, in fact, mutating, we just aren't being selected for or against in a noticeable way. Stuff like resistance to diseases will continue to evolve within our species. You cannot de-evolve.