The answer lies in the fact that the bible was written by primitive men who didn't foresee there would be a lot of mistakes in their writing. it's a work of fiction and god is the main character. everything makes in the bible makes perfect sense when you realize that god is imaginary. to believe otherwise is to cast aside all forms of logic and to make excuses on god's behalf in order to make yourself feel better about the fact that your uncomfortable that the bible has so many contradictions, half-truths, and lies written throughout it. this is also because the bible is not all about god about jesus, it's simply a new version of an old pagan myth (think I'm wrong? google: zeitgeist part 1, watch the video). also you can check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUj8hg5CoSw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk6ILZAaAMI somebody please address this. here, i made your work easier, here's zeitgeist part 1 zeitgeist part 1 - Google Video# watch the first video listed BUT! before you watch any of them, make sure you are going to watch them all the way until the end or you won't get the message. I think you can find a way in your to cut thirty minutes out of your time in order to watch these videos, just like you make time for church every sunday.
Actually, I won't watch all of them. The first one is wrong, and if you blindly follow something so wrong, then I can't expect you to look up your facts for any of the others. The first video's foundation is upon the Gospel of Matthew, chapter 18, verses 19 and 20. It reads... By the way, I will quote all my references in the King James Version. I, personally, don't read it, but it is the closest to true authentication (Hebrew text) that we have. Sadly, this verse is misinterpreted far too often. Look it up. The preceding verses speak of confronting a fellow Christian who's living in sin. Firstly, it calls the one who notices the Christian who is making no effort to quit his life of sin to confront the man/woman by himself. Secondly, if the Christian ignores the brother's request for him to repent his sin, he is to re-visit the man/woman with one or two more. Lastly, if the person living in sin continues to ignore the requests of his fellow Christians, they are to take the matter before the church. Following this command, we see God's verification that we are not judging or convicting the person. He clarifies that we are in His will. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Do we now understand the purpose of this verse? It is not for the purpose of testing God. He does not say that He will do whatever we ask. Firstly, this is a verse directed at Christians. If you are not a Christian, then this does not pertain to you. In succession, if you read the verse as a Christian who acknowledges God as more powerful, you should have the common sense to know that God will not bow to a human's will. <("<)EDIT(>")> @Everyone: My quotes are failing. I keep editing the post to fix them, but they keep resorting back to the amass of fail that you see. Please, bare with me. @Nitrous: I know you're thinking, "What a douche! He replied to that guy before me!" and you're right. I am a douche, and I did reply to that guy before you. It's only because the explanation to his required much less thought process than even a simple response to one of your questions, lulz. I promise, I will get to it.
At the very least watch the last video, the zeitgeist one. The other two I agree have a little bit of room for error in their argument but please watch the last one. EDIT: dented_drum shouldn't be the only one to watch that video, EVERYBODY needs to watch that video. Oh and if your thinking "he just made this up", every fact is cited on the zeitgeist website (just do a quick google search and you'll find it).
IT'S 26:41 LONG!!! As respectfully as I can put it, I won't reply to videos made by other people. I could easily YouTube an expert in apologetics response to your videos. Our argument through videos would accomplish nothing. Again, I debate to learn. If you debate for the simple purpose of proving me wrong, then you're in need of a direction change. I will be the first to claim that I'm unintelligent. However, I can't bring myself to reply to someone who won't give me their own opinions. I could've used this time to reply to Nitrous... *regret* <("<)EDIT(>")> Instead of the bolded, "THEIR," I should've said, "HIS." I sometimes fail at pronoun number agreement. This is a prime example of my unintelligence, lulz.
Ok, well what makes more sense: for me to type out everything said in a 30 minute video or for you to simply watch the video. I"m not asking a whole lot here. I post these videos because THEY ARE MY OPINIONS. I'm saving your eyes the trouble of reading through a mess of words by giving you a visual that's much easier to understand. You could post a video reply, as long as it followed your opinion. If you are just posting it just to be a d-bag then that's when it's wrong. The zeitgeist video is one of the many factors that led to my atheism. So I therefore think it's a credible source in this debate. If you think it's too long well just think of it as half a church service. EDIT: Secondly, I'm not about to debate the interpretation of the bible or what it's saying because nobody knows wtf it truly means. There's a multitude of religions, each of which interpret it differently. Secondly, there's a multitude of different bibles out there, each of which is written differently (which I still don't understand how that can happen). And, after you watch the video, i'm confident you'll find your biblic arguments lacking. EDIT2: Just because you find one part of my argument unsatisfactory to you doesn't mean you should ignore the rest. Under that logic I should ignore everything you say because I don't believe in any of what your saying.
I'm sorry, bro. I can't bring myself to do it. I can't see it as anything other than a waste of time. Videos should be in addition to your post. What does... ...accomplish? The video posted might be a representation of the poster's true opinion, but it's not the particular individual's words. That is, a debate should test your ability to create your opinion, your ability to defend your opinion, and the amount of intelligence you hold. Please understand that I'm not trying to be rude or even trying to disregard your opinion because it "takes time to reply." I'm merely saying that I want those statements to be from the person I'm debating with, in his/her own words. <("<) EDIT (>")> Also, your edit tells me a lot of things. For one, you're bringing in lots of variables into a static debate. Variables cause heavy misinterpretation. I'm sad to say that I won't be debating with you. You can't grasp, and from what I've seen, have no desire to grasp my requests of you. At the very least, a commoner of this sub-section would comprise his/her opinion in his/her own words. Even if that opinion is poorly worded and contains little grammatical effort, it is their own. They've not used a non-quote-able source. They've not put 15 seconds into a debate that they expect their opponent to put 30+ minutes into. They have enough general respect for the other party to properly address the matter. I respectfully withdraw myself, and sincerely apologize for the waste of time this has been to both your life and mine.
ok fine, disregard my videos and previous statements. all i want is for one person to give me one good reason as to how god can possibly exist. it's a simple question. if this cannot be answered then i really do need to leave this debate forum because it's nonsense with how more time is spent debating about debating than actually debating (try that for a tongue-twister). If you can't do this dented_drum then can anyone else please step up? The reasons I'm asking these things is because I'm trying to get a gauge of what people in here believe so I can actually debate them.
This is a theological debate (or was). If you would like to debate the existence of god you are welcome to. I'll stand by you in saying that god is imaginary, however, right now we are trying to unravel truths and faults in the bible in an attempt, in my opinion, to convert one another. Certainly god can be disproved outside theology, but to do it on their own ground is so much more meaningful.
theological is a paradox. there is no truth in the bible, because it's an elaborate metaphor for pagan beliefs as well as astrology. You can't take the bible at its word because your assuming its all true which it isn't. None of the bible is true. I really just urge all of you to watch the zeitgeist video. You'll be amazed at what you learn about the bible. I don't care about the debate. Please, somebody just watch this video! And if your going to watch it, watch it until the very end. It's not some random youtube video like the other ones i've posted. It's a professional piece of work. It's been the winner of the artivist film festival in hollywood in 2007. Please, please watch it. here's the link again: zeitgeist the movie - Google Video I realize this is the wrong section to be doing this, but because everyone so religiously fueled here, i think it's appropriate.
I've seen it. A lot of it has been reputed by Christians and atheists alike. Though it does serve a powerful reminder of how close Christianity is to what it claims to be opposed to.
I wish to so join in this little fray. I think I will given some time, it's late and I'm tired. But, I do want to help some people out there including drum to understand the concept of who God is.
That depends entirely on your interpretation. From being a fundamentalist, who rejects all science, to an agnostic who accepts these books to be man kind's attempts to study the divine but could truly never capture god's majesty.
This reminds me of a statement made by a college professor saying that since God made everything, then that must mean that God made evil. A student stood up to say that "evil is like darkness. It is not created. It is simply an absence of light.* And like that, evil was not created by God, it simply is an absence of God." And so Lucifer was made by God. He was actually an Angel of music; his body made of beautiful pipes that made amazing music. But he left God, and became jealous of him getting all the Glory. So without God, he became evil. By the way, the student who owned the professor was Albert Einstein. And don't say that I made that up. I didn't. Now I know that this doesn't answer the question, but it's very similar. The Bible says that God is good and love ect. And that whatever is good is God. And Lucifer is evil, and God is not; so God is NOT the devil.* *Common sense people. Besides, Where did you hear of God being an all-encompassing being that is a part of everything in existence? He MADE every thing. But he isn't everything. That's what I know.
I know what's happening, as it sometimes happens to me too. The problem has to do with this site's BBcode. If you wrap [noparse.] around your entire post, you'll see what I'm talking about. It's really weird, and the only way I've been able to fix it is manually go in and rewrite by hand. It suxorz. Btw Dented, that new point was originally brought up by me, not Nitrous. Oh and John Brodish, please stop advertising zeitgeist and derailing this topic into offtopicness. If you want people to see that video, go to the video section and post it. If you want to debate about the existence of God, go to the appropriate topic.
This is probably the most ludicrous debate that's ever been here, apart from the one comparing gay marriage to incest and raping dead bodies. Here's why you read way to far into it. Religion is how you interpet. Obviously God isn't evil. The only people who would come up with something like that is a satan worshiper. So then my question to you is do you worship satan. That's like saying how is God not Mr. Snowballs. Or how is god not Hitler, Santa, and Peyton Manning. I mean come on. And if he's part of everything, then wouldn't you also say he's the dirt we walk on, a T.V. in you're room, and Big Ben. This isn't meant to be interputted in a direct way. It's meant that his faith exsists in everything. Like depeneding on how religious you are this is what supposed to mean. His faith is everywhere. If you look anywhere you can find his presence. And he is supposed to have some kind of mental presence in you. It's so you can make good decisions, and realize the beauty around you kinda. This isn't how I feel, but that's what it's supposed to mean. Because Satan is considered to be the ultimate evil, any type of mental presence God had in him has faded away and detiorated. Hopethat helps. And do you have proof of any of these conversations with Christians? Because if you do please put it up, if not where is your evidence.
Actually, this debate was going pretty well before you came in here. You might have realized that if you didn't just read the first post and reply. So if you're not going to follow the topic, and just come in here and act like an ignorant douche, I'm gonna have to ask you to GTFO.
God created everything. He knows where, when why and how every event will happen. He is all knowing. You say that evil is the simply the absence of God as dark is the absence of light, but God allows evil to exist, He allows humans to be exposed to it, he allows the devil to exist and operate. He created the devil (or at least the "fallen angel" who He knew would become the devil) and he does not stop the devils evil doing (since apparently he chooses be associated with evil). After reading most of this thread it seems general the reason given is that God allows these things because God is using the devil. With the existence of evil and the devil, humans have a choice/temptation to sin. By making the correct choices (avoiding evil, not sinning, etc) humans can prove their faith and devotion to God and earn a luxury apartment in heaven. What ruins this statement is the vast amount of souls which have had no reasonable chance of salvation. Humans are so easily influenced. If I had been recruited by terrorists or Nazis at a young age I would undoubtedly now support their views. If I had grown up in a Muslim or Jewish household I would undoubtedly support their views. Plus all the people that existed before Jesus - wasn't it rather unfair to create all those souls to inevitably go to hell. What also ruins it is that God already knows what choices we will make. Why bother creating souls which will make the wrong choices and are destined to burn in hell. Why allow souls that are already corrupt and destined to burn in hell to influence and corrupt another soul (parents corrupting their children, teachers corrupting their student, etc). God may have created free will so we can choose the right path, but he already knows who will and will not choose the right path and intends to discard those who do not and invite those who do to his exclusive Christian club up in the clouds. Is he giving us chance to learn the religion by ourselves? Surely we all agree that we can't possibly know the truth 100%, why would he want us to learn from a heavily edited and often badly translated book rather than Him teling us Himself. To quote a very wise member of the Mock the Week: Arg gotta dash so I've cut that a bit short at the end. mehhh.
Was that directed towards me? I think I provided a pretty good point after I said that the topic was ridiculous. Read my whole post if you didn't
Well I just read 9 pages of this debate SO GTFO the way...I'm commenting. I have a few lost topics I would like to clear up if I could but I don't want to distracted the main topic. Dented You have made a wonderful case Keep up the work. <<warning>> this could be a long post.... -Ezekiel 3:18 ( When I say to a wicked man, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. Much of this argument could have been avoided by reading the text surrounding the verse in context. The blood is on hands of the one who did not help because he did not stop to help someone who was in need of help. The blood on his hands has no meaning of his death but of the blood of Sin... or the Good NOT done. ............................................ Much of this Talk of God Knowing ahead of time So your meaning the things that you don't know about ... God does not know about? How do you know your destine to go t o hell? If you do know can you in lighten me? All I have to go off of is if I am without Christ I am bond to a doom of hell..but it does not say out right I am destined to go to hell. It is our predestined understanding that makes us thing we are already bound to hell. ...Its very odd to say its over when Life is in every breath. Now for all unasked question can god Set up you to fail? I mean your life personally you have had the choice. Yes there is the point of view where what about the people who haven't heard, but Hear me out. You have heard. What is keeping your Predestined Horror from happening, Its not god that is for sure. ............................................. Luke Chapter 16:19-31 HTML: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=16&version=31 is quite a good Read. A man is in quite the similar situation. But I asked still along the lines Where does goes Predictions mean your already destined to hell? I mean if every thing goes to how they are at the moment depending on your heart on the situation at the present moment or when you officially die... that is the argument I bring to the case. Just because its in a trend does not mean its destined Just as your weatherman report. As of the moment the report is made it has already altered slightly if not totally. ........ I know this was meant for Dented. To comment back on but I wish to comment. I think reading the entire bible is the Love story of God, not saying I love you but showing it. How else would God Allow all of us to survive so long if he did not love us. I am taking this at the face value that you believe God exist. Take it as If your going to die at least I give you a few more days to live before you have no more to enjoy. Its quite an arrangement to say God does not love you. But How can you stop some one from loving you? Or even yet Prove that some one does not love you? I battle with this often even on a day to day battle with my relationships with friends and loved ones.... .................................................... What makes the difference from a Good Christian and Bad Christian? I'm lost in this wording. Blasphemy was miss taken as Dented put it in such a wonderful way ..It is the continuing to say there is no god by action not by wondering if there is or is not a God. Its more about the heart then about what we would literally say. I mean A good Christian today could be Paul, that was yesterday a Murder... Much of the change that takes place is a change of heart. ..................................................................................................... I will have a few others once I get the text bib refences...
Sorry if someone has already said this, but I don't have time to go through all 8 pages. Lucifer was the most powerful angel. God was still above him of course. Lucifer thought he was better than God, so he turned against him. God cast him out of heaven, and now Lucifer is known as the devil. So if God was the devil, then why would He go against himself in heaven? God and Lucifer are obviously two completely different people (or whatever you want to call them)