Debate Presidental election '08

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by AllseeingEntity, Jun 21, 2008.

  1. Draw the Line

    Draw the Line Ancient
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    He hasn't shown any specifics, but its just assumed. Clarity isn't needed because its considered "the norm". All he's doing is lowering tax for the middle class and holding executives in large responsible for unreasonable greed. You'll be just fine.

    If his tax plan was going to hurt small business, McCain would have jumped at that opportunity already.
     
    #201 Draw the Line, Oct 9, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2008
  2. ScarFac3d

    ScarFac3d Ancient
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    Has anyone else heard about how some are claiming that Obama did coccaine as a teenager?
     
  3. Chipsinabox

    Chipsinabox Ancient
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    That's most definitely a desperate attempt to insult a presidential candidate.



    Remember people: TURN OFF YOUR SIGS.
     
  4. NeverlessWonder

    NeverlessWonder Ancient
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    Yeah, the McCain campaign is getting desperate and wouldn't waste an opportunity to say something bad about Obama. So I agree with DTL that small businesses like yours Dented are okay. The whole "palling around with terrorists" comment from Palin is ridiculous, and I haven't heard of the cocaine thing yet, but if they're doing that then they're really stretching to find something.

    I was looking at the CNN fact check thing yesterday, and I was a little suprised to see that every contested fact he or Palin stated, was either misleading or completely false. Whereas all but one of Obama's facts checked out.

    Now, to me, even if there are some problems with Obama's policies, I'd rather vote for someone who has a record of telling the truth and getting his facts straight. It shows me that he might do what he promises and that he knows what he's talking about and what he's doing. I don't want to vote for someone who tells lies and gives misleading information to make you think what they want you to think. If I were to cancel out all the misleading information I've heard from McCain, all I would know about him is that he "knows how to do things, and can reach across party lines." That tells me nothing.
     
    #204 NeverlessWonder, Oct 10, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2008
  5. Draw the Line

    Draw the Line Ancient
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    To Dented:

    Obama is offering help for small businesses
    You can read the article here.
     
  6. dented_drum

    dented_drum Ancient
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    Hmm, I see him saying that he's going to help small businesses, and that's perfectly well and good. I've still seen only one place where he's clarified what he calls "small business," and that was in the article I previously linked. If he's going to help my business, one that handles over 250K each year, then please show me where he states that. In no way am I saying that I'm in support of McCain. I'm not in support of any politician. However, I've seen more founding principles that I disagree with from Obama than from McCain. This is the foremost, and I'm perfectly capable of being swayed, but I'd like proof.
     
  7. Draw the Line

    Draw the Line Ancient
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    He was talking about families there....not small business.

    He doesn't need to define small businesses because they're already defined by the government here.
     
  8. rusty eagle

    rusty eagle Ancient
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    I will be voting for McCain this November.

    This is for you Nev ;)
     
  9. NeverlessWonder

    NeverlessWonder Ancient
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    Lol. You even sent me a visitors message with a link here so I would see this. What the heck? haha
    Well, if that's your contribution to the debate, then I've already won.

    I don't care if someone votes for McCain because they might think he's better. The thing that bothers me, is that I have not yet seen a McCain supporter who was able to back up their vote with facts and good reasons for it. I have not seen one good argument for why McCain would be a better President than Obama.

    They're either horribly misled by McCain's lies, or they're just blindly voting for a Republican. It scares me to see so many people not using their heads and/or submitting to fearmongering.
    For something as important as a presidential election, you have to look at both sides. You have to look at all the facts, and you have to make sure those facts check out. The simple fact is, is that McCain's facts don't check out. So he either doesn't know what he's talking about, or he is lying to people and trying to manipulate their thinking to win this election. Neither is a character trait that I want to see in our next president.
     
  10. Scopulus

    Scopulus Ancient
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    Bob Barr for president 08' :) ( jk)

    I'd have to go with Mccain. I'm not being racist on Obamas half.. just.. IDK.
     
  11. Capybara Guy

    Capybara Guy Ancient
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    While I agree that McCain is apparently out of touch, Obama is also rather off, too.

    He makes these grand promises, with no concrete way to fulfill them. He promises to cut taxes, but makes no real points on how the government, already in debt past its corrupt eyeballs, is going to continue functioning. Obamas only real claim to fame is his race. It's like voting for the bearded lady; you don't know if she will make a good leader, but she's new and different, so let's vote for her.

    Biden might be a wise choice for VP, but the president is the guy who makes the decisions, not his underling. What if, for example, the VP is unable to be reached, and Obama signs some stupid tax cut that can only be funded by selling off our ICBMs to the highest bidder?

    McCain, on the other hand, is kinda pathetic; he's the vanilla candidate, who advocates "staying the course", an idea that is not what many people want to hear. His statement "the fundamentals of our economy are sound", so often quoted to indicate his stupidity, is 100% correct. Could we have survived 2 world wars, a war of independace, an invasion (& destruction of our seat of government), and a civil war with out free enterprise? Probably... would we be the same country we are today? I think not. When everyone is pushing for their own interests, and a level playing field is created, the aggregate movement is forward. We got out of the last depression (eventually) & we will get out of this one too, because that is the American dream: to succed.
    Sarah Palin is an unsophisticated governor of a small (population and influence) state.
    I can only imagine how she was chosen....
    McCain "Wow, that Hilary chick almost won the primaries. How can we create a candidate, who I can control, who can capture her thunder?"
    Aide #1: "We could kidnap her, and indoctrinate her into Republican ideals, and to love you."
    McCain "what if she goes awry? I don't want a loose cannon in my cabinet (besides me). Next?"
    Aide #2: "You could choose your wife, I bet she loves you, and would agree with anything you said"
    McCain "Nah, that Clinton feller got in trouble for having sex in the white house, imagine if the VP and the Pres were doing it. Next"
    Aide #3 " We could pick some relative no-name woman, who will agree with you because it's the part line, and out of gratitude for the fame you give her"
    McCain: "Excellant Idea! I read the govener of Alaska is a woman, and a republican! She's perfect!"
    Aide #3: "But sir, do you remember Nixon?"
    McCain: "He was president, right? See, I told you it would work. now, what's her number....."
    Aide #3: "He WAS president, but he left office because of a scandal, and Palin, she makes him look like a choir boy. He nearly got impeached!"
    McCain: "I like peaches, but I prefer good, hearty American fruit, like kiwis, do you think I can get Im-kiwi-ed?"
    etc....
     
  12. NeverlessWonder

    NeverlessWonder Ancient
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    To Capybara: Well.. that was... interesting..
    As for your points on the economy: It's already making a bit of a comeback. It's still in bad shape, but it can be fixed. The national debt? When has this country not been in debt? Even when Bill Clinton came to office and turned a, I think 3 billion dollar deficit into a 4 billion dollar surplus, we were still in debt and I think we'll probably always be in debt. I have no clue how the whole thing works, but apparently it doesn't seem to make much difference. Someone who is not ignorant on this subject, please enlighten me.

    As for how Obama will change the economy, he's said it many times. Tax cuts on the middle class, average american. More taxes on the wealthy. I believe it was said that 'wealthy' was defined as a family that brings in a million or half a million dollars a year. Tax cuts on the middle class will actually boost the economy, as it will take a lot of pressure off of many families who are in danger of losing their homes, of going bankrupt, of being laid off, or any number of things.

    He also is gonna basically be taking a lot of the money we're currently wasting in Iraq, the $10 billion a month, and using it more wisely. Part of what that money will go to is funding for alternative energy, which will create thousands of jobs, and again, boost the economy.
    What is McCain going to do? He's gonna keep this war in Iraq going "until we win it." How long is that going to take? Who knows... but we do know what it's going to cost. $10 billion a month. How long can we keep that up? How much more are we gonna ruin our economy and increase our debt over a stupid war that shouldn't have been fought in the first place?

    To Scopulus: Then why would you mention race at all? Seriously. Not trying to call you a racist... just.. IDK
    lol
     
  13. makisupa007

    makisupa007 Ancient
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    Republicans Are Filled With Hatred

    Republicans are filled with such hatred these days. Before you cast a vote for Mccain ask yourself if you can relate to this type of blind, ignorant hatred. At least Mccain is trying to calm the angry mob, but it's a little like trying to tame flames that he earlier fanned.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlMpGeCdLkshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wmAZUAMG8I
    I challenge Mccain supporters to find footage of anything even remotely similar to this coming from the Obama campaign. Obama's rallies are filled with hope, optimism, and a sincere respect for his opponent.

    Which side do you identify with?
     
  14. thelastsparten

    thelastsparten Ancient
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    the last time we didn't have a national debt was when andrew jackson was president becausehe believed in only using what we have not what we can borrow from others.
    this is true however the definition is a quarter of a million dollars a year which coincidentely is 50 thousand dollars more then the president makes. also raising taxes on the wealthy will not help it will reduce the amount of money employers have and reduce jobs for middleclass workers. lowering taxes for everyone would help because then everyone has more money the middle class has more money to spend they buy more the government gets more money from the retail tax and the buisness owners can keep their employeys and their prices down.
    first off yes we should not have invaded Iraq however we did blame bush the point is if we leave without leaving a stable government we will be hated even more by the rest of the world also mccain is for oil but he also says that we need alternative fuils because we can't just drop oil and say lets find a new energy be foolish and with expanded drilling in america not only do we gain jobs in both areas but we keep our money inside our own country rather then giving it countries in south america and the middle east who don't like us and fund terrorists
    your not going to find that because obama denies everything wrong that he has ever done
     
  15. NeverlessWonder

    NeverlessWonder Ancient
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    Haha, he denies the lies they're spreading on his character. What has he done wrong? He is not a muslim terrorist, he is not going to let terrorists invade our country, and he is not going turn us into Communists. It's ridiculous the things people are believing and making up about all of this.

    Makissupa, thanks for finding those videos dude. I saw most of that on MSNBC one night, and wished I coulda posted it here. That whole thing is ridiculous.
     
  16. thelastsparten

    thelastsparten Ancient
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    i never said he was any of those things

    i'm talking about when he says things like i'm ashamed of mccain for sticking up for my wife when the media attacked her i would have stood up to the media for him when just a month earlier he said nothing as the media crucified mccains wife
     
  17. EGP

    EGP Ancient
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    From experience with the election so far I really think its at 50 50 I do not know who is going to end up in office.
    We are going to have to wait and see
     
  18. NeverlessWonder

    NeverlessWonder Ancient
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    I'm having a really hard time understanding that. Could you perhaps explain that better?

    Anyway, the last debate is tonight people! Less than an hour. I gotz some things to do with my woman, *wink* , but I'm gonna try to catch all of it.
     
  19. Sam

    Sam Ancient
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    In tonight's debate, McCain referred to Obama once as "Senator Government." What are your thoughts on this?
     
  20. BattyMan

    BattyMan Ancient
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    Highlight of the debate:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EASpPlcVbdI

    McCain wins the damn kids need to get of my lawn vote
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    Also
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    And
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    McCain needs to not be so transparent. People naturally pick up on emotions and facial gestures, no need for McCain to forcibly telegraph himself. Be lookin like an angsty teen groaning at his parents.

    One thing that really struck me was how McCain plans to deal with healthcare. Along with everything else wrong with his plan, giving people money and then letting them and the businesses figure things out sounds very similar to what’s going on with the banks. I don’t want people getting sick because of ultra competitive health care, then end up either dying or getting propped up by taxes after the hospitals fail them. Same with schools, having schools compete and work things out on their own? Am I mistaken in assuming that’s what McCain was suggesting? Because, once again, I see strong connections between that and the bank situation.

    McCain was smacked down on the tax issue. Like when he said “why raise taxes at all?” why would he say that? Everyone I talk to, no matter how uninformed, agrees that the next leader needs to make tough decisions. How does not raising taxes at all sound like anything other than an empty promise? That’s the kind of thing that won’t fool stupid people, and makes smart people feel insulted. And it’s especially bad for McCain to say that now because people desperately want direct honest answers at this point, they’re hungry for it. Obama admitting to raising taxes makes Obama look good, McCain trying to attack him for it makes McCain look bad. As if McCain won’t stop playing the game, not even now, when we’re knee deep in a huge economic mess.

    I could go on. Pick pretty much any part of the debate and it'll be full of stuff McCain did wrong.

    Also lol at McCain thinking Palin’s kid is an Autism baby.
     
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