I fear that the word skill is being thrown around too much. So I ask, what is skill? Skill is what allows you to beat your opponent. What allows you to beat your opponent? The knowledge of certain techniques. How do you get these techniques? You get them through word of mouth, Youtbe or you find them yourself. Then you perfect them. How do you perfect them? You do it the old fashioned way. You do it over and over again until you have it down to a T. Is everyone with me? Good. Let's apply this to other circumstances. The classic Grenade, BR combo. Allows you to kill your opponents in seconds. A very common strategy when you see your opponent and you have the higher ground. I'll apply this to Average Joe. Now, Average Joe just finished watching a match that was recorded on Youtube. He saw that the player threw a grenade in frnt of the enemy and then one-shotted him. Simple, right? So, he puts in his Halo 3 and starts a game of matchmaking. He tries it out and it doesn't work properly. He continues and continues and he has it down to a T. Now, let's apply this to something different. Average Joe just onec again finsished watching a video of good Hiding places. HE saw a nice place on Gaurdian that seems easy enough and out of the way. He puts in Halo 3 and loads up a custom game and practices it until he has it perfected. Now he tries it in Machmaking with huge sucess. In both cases, AJ does the same thing and practices it. In both cases, he got them from Youtube. In both cases, his knowledge is put to the test against his enemies. In the BR case, it's a simple technique that just about everyone uses. But in the game he won, his enemy doesn't know this technique. In the hiding case, his knowledge is put directly to the test against his enemies. In this case, the enemy lost badly due to not knowing where the spot was. The only difference between the two is that in one, he practiced without interferance and the other he had to put it to the test against the enemy and he couldn't practice in custom games. This makes it seem like it takes less skill to do. No, you're not. Point to me where hiding is a password or a disallowed technique! There are no rules against hiding.
Wow prfectly said.I think this thread is done now.You just pwnded all of us.Everythign you said was right.I think lock is neccesary.
If this is locked another will open up... people will continue to speak. Might as well keep it to one thread. This is a never ending debate. It is the same debate as the people who yell at you not to use the shotgun in shotty snipers due to the fact that, "they lack skill since you only use that, that it is all they can use. and can't snipe" This may just be a video game, but then again, this is just a website. Why bother argue your opinions at all? Because it is who you are. What actions you do in everything shows an overall perceptive to your person. And, I also want to say once again: Natural hiding, behind barriers, ammo cases, corners, tunnels, or other related spots that any ONE person can get to at any time during the round, is OK and fine, and IS a skill: setting a trap and ambushing. Gaining the lead, then hidding in a spot of perfect one-way defense that guarantees your win no matter what... THAT is cheap. THAT is wrong.
I agree with everything you said except the last sentence which I colored red. There is no place in Halo 3 that is a perfect one-way defense. You can always kill the person in that hiding spot somehow, unless the hiding person was cheating. I don't see what you mean by "natural hiding" being okay, as it is basically the same thing as any other, non-cheating hiding spot. Hiding is hiding, and there is no rule against it.
the spot underneath construct is a fine example. if you bring the bubble and sniper riffle with you, you can almost guarantee no ones gonna be walking down there and getting you. i personally cant find another angle to nade down there. (bungie actually got rid of a spot in guardian. you needed 2 points to make this one work) it was "behind" the shot gun. [access point was near the blue-coil room, above the pistol] to get there you needed the brute shot and another person. once up there. the other guy could jump off the cliff, die, then spawn behind his team mate (before one of the updates, a player created a "spawn zone" that your teammates would spawn in: similar to territories acting both as zones and points once captured) want more? there is no user on forgehub with this name. if you used an interent dictionary to find this information, then reference it with a URL. If you used one from your home, then put the name and page number of the dicTionary. >_< don't make false quotes to prove a point. I know what you were doing and what you are saying, but still don't do that. just looks stupid >_>
No, you look stupid when you try to argue against one of his points by saying that there isnt a member on FH called dictionary when you yourself stated that you knew exactly what he was doing. Just because he didn't reference a quote does not mean that it was a false quote. Seriously, don't be so picky when you yourself state that you know what it means. Reading that it sounded really rude. Its not meant to, so don't take it too offensively.
Just saying that yes, he is correct because he got it form skill definition |Dictionary.com and yes hiding is a skill. so not cheating. Hacking and modding is a skill. it's against the rules, but it's still a skill my point: him giving a reference to the definition of skill DOES prove that hiding is a skill, but it does not make it seem better, or any less low and silly, to become a skillful hider. I mean... seriously. If you go to someone after they ask, "in matchmaking, what are you good at?" "oh, I excel at my skill of hiding" >_> unless you attack ME it takes alot to offend me. your opinions are your opinions can't get mad at you for that. now if you call me stupid or flame, that's different. and you're right.
Yes, it is a skill but I believe that it violates the terms of use on Xbox Lives. What are you trying to say? It puts hiding on the same level as mad BR skillz.
so do I. and that was my point. just cause something is a skill, doesnt make it better than being cheap. Actually... no. Not really. Lets assume that you are a person who has been sheltered his whole life completely, and the concept of a button is introduced to you, and you are told to complete the task of pushing said button; How much skill is required to hit a button? One button, with a simple press? Now, I know you may be sweating trying to imagine this, since you have never experienced it before, but once shown, you grasp the concept, and quickly master the very extremely easy task. To push a button. Now it has been mastered to a T. You are told of the hiding spots, by some means of information giver (either personal experience, videos, or visual/sensual information[people talking/reading] ). You learn the spots of hiding in Halo 3. To hide in cover away from the "mad BR skillz" so you can get a quick clean kill and lead, then not risk loosing it again. You master the art of hit and run. And master the art of disengaging your enemy. Very quickly. To a T [in my opinion] Mastering the BR is never ending. There are top players at MLG who still learn something everyday and every time they fire the BR. The skill of hiding requires much less investment of time, energy, effort, and thought processes then the skill of mastering weapons. I say Mastering, not getting good with. If a guy mastered the BR, it would be like when lord_of_goose mastered the art of Bruteshot-mongoose-ridding. ( http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=QPdIRCUigJA ) If you get good at hiding, you will have few options to try differently. If you are good with weapons, you will probably get killed by someone who is better. Or luckier. Or quicker thinker.
I was listening to the Bungie Podcast the other day, and was surprised to hear that they made some late changes in Halo 2's matchmaking to prevent hiding in certain gametypes. They even mentioned trying to deal with HLGers by placing waypoints over everyone's head. So while you can hide and it is a viable strategy, it isn't something Bungie intended on, and it seems like they do not approve of it. So if HLG truly becomes a problem....expect waypoints to appear.
Thats extremely stupid.By Bungie doing that it almost seems that they should just make a blank map with nothing on it if they don't want us to hide.Either way we find new spots as bungie clear old ones.Check out hidden masters youtube page.They already found new ones after bungie blocked the old ones. Its just going to be an ongoing dilemma theres nothing they can do about it. And if Bungie is a little smart they won't put way points because then no one would play matchmaking anymore and probably leave.
\...? 1 on 1? waypoints. unless they are gone. I think he means that in 2 on 2 only. not ffa or the other game types. 2 on 2 isn't that much worse. a sniper could be found, but normally they don't stay under cover anyways. If you hide in FFA not much point to that, the others will pass you. So this seems to only be a problem with team based games, and normally it gets pretty hard to hide more than 4 guys. and even then 3 and 4 is hard to pull off.
Well this is my opinion but thats why I hate 1v1.Its to easy for the non-leader seeing where the leader is.I don't think it takes strategy because you can just throw grenades where the way point is.Its extremely stupid.
well... a debate, must have some type of purpose. for you its to convince us that hiding is okay.for me, its to convince you that it's not. now. assume one of two possibilities happening: A) you convince me: I start using the technique or stop caring. B) you believe me: you stop using the technique or start caring. My goal is to convince you so you stop using it. so i don't have to have it happen to me in the future, if only by you. so for me, yes, this is a campaign to stop hiding. if not, I clearly would not be trying so hard.
well, beleive me, im NEVER stopping HLG, somtimes killing just gets boring, so you want to mix it up... anyway, the good spots are hard to get to
OMG i hate it when they hide! It's like there cheating and it takes the fun out of it. If it's on a custum it doesn't matter since you don't get a gain or loss except for maybe anger but i think in social or ranked it is cheating to hide.\ I think this is out of subject but on rockets don't you think there should be a radar for rockets so you know if rockets are coming to you from long distance.
I see what's happening. What we (those against hiding) feel about the subject is backed up mostly by pure common sense. There comes a point at which you over-analyze something. It boils down to me saying."Look, dude, you're just screwing up the game. It's not fun. You're being a ****." Then, you say, "You can't say that because the definition of X states that X is X and I can X because Bungie didn't outlaw X. Oh and, if they did, we'd quit." That showed it right there, Storm. You said that, if Bungie used the waypoint system to prevent camping, you (and likely others) would just quit MatchMaking. That says (again, common sense. Try not to strain too hard, guys) to me that you play just to hide. If you can't hide, then you don't want to play. You can't be versatile. Dissolving your ability to hide threatens your ability to win, and, (based on what you said) if your ability to win is threatened, you won't enjoy the game enough to continue playing it the way the creators have chosen. Subsequently, I infer that you can't have fun losing. If you're such a poor sport, then I don't see value in a debate with you anyways. +++++++++++ +++Edit+++ ++++++ Forgive me, I misquoted. Here is the post I was referring to:::
at what point did he state that? but anyway, i would play matchmaking with waypoints, id just find better spots, like ones that are hard to get to, not hard to find.