Ah, the Creation vs Evolution debate. Possibly one of the largest and continuous debates in history. I could continue talking about this, but to be honest, I'm a little impatient. My own little rules: 1. Don't flame. 2. Keep up with the debate. It's annoying having a conversation with someone while other people who have only read the first page come in and say, "Creation arez wr0ng!" 3. Don't say anything like "It's just faith!". Evolutionists have faith, Christians have faith, and suicide bombers have faith. I believe for sure because of evidence to back me up. As for me, I'm for Creation, and I have good evidence too. I'll think I'll save it for later though. So go ahead! Post your opinions!
Creation as in God creation right? Ok this could be a really good debate thread but could be very violent lol I am for creation, because I am Christian, evolution doesnt make sense because if we evolve how come we arent still evolving, if "evolution is true this theory fails" sorry for those who disagree to yell at me lol
Makisupa. You're "I'm right you're wrong!" post obviously effects no one. The debates forum is for debates, not copy-paste pictures. If you want to have a real conversation, then state why you believe what you believe.
Agreed post why you support this opinion. I will argue against you post though. Ok you posted a picture of the monkey involving to the man. I have two question. 1-Why did we start as monkeys> 2- Why arent we still evolving, let me guess, It just magically stopped!
Debate What? This topic has been covered in other debate threads so I didn't want to go on a rant that I've gone on several times in the debate section. I used the pictures because I don't understand what there is to debate. The first picture shows the evolution of man from the apes. The bones of every one of the creatures in that picture can be found in your local museum. We have the hard evidence. The fossil record has also been able to take us down the evolutionary "tree of life" back to single cell organisms. Over thousands of years of pain staking research and discovery, experimentation and peer review, the best of our combined scientific minds have come up with picture #2. Show some respect and debate it if you dare.
Now, time for my reasons. I'll start at the beginning. The Big Bang: Where did that first piece of matter come from? They have no answer. The first cell: For amino acids to make one protein, they must arrange into a certain order. The odds of this ordes occuring is (brace yourself) one over 180 trillion octillion. That would be to make only one protein. 1000s of proteins are needed to make a cell. And even then, the cell would have to survive. The time it would take to make this one living cell: 130 billion years. Over 15 times as long as any evolutionist will say the earth is. The Mutation-Selection Theory: It is a fact that with every mutation, DNA data is lost. Evolutionist have failed to explaine how after millions and millions of years of mutations, we have more data. The Irreducable Complexity Theory: To creat organisms like the eye, every piece of the body part must be made at one time. If not, the useless piece of the body part would be destroyed through natural selection. Eg: Bob grows a cord that connects his eye to his brain. He has no eye, so his cord is not passed on. Bob grows a cord and part of his eye. The eye is useless, and not passed down. Bob would need 5 perfect mutations in one lifetime to make an eye. Geologic evidence: When Mt. St. Hellens exploded, the debris and soil created from the small flood it made created what evolutionist would interpret as millions and millions of years of layers. If one flood could do that, then wouldn't a world-wide flood create enough layers to be interpreted as billions? Missing Links: Ah, my favorite part. After billions and billions of years of evolving, all the evidence for missing links (90% of which have been disproven) could fit on a pool table. You'd think we'd have tons of evidence, but we don't. Anyway, I've got a bunch of other arguments, but like I said, I'm lazy. PS: Please excuse any spelling mistakes I made. I typed this fast, and I'm only a freshman. PSS: I dared. By the way, the "bones at your local museam" were put together by men, knowing they would make millions if they were to find a missing link. You don't think they showed a little bias while putting bones in positions never seen before? By the way, I'm a big fan of your maps. I'd have downloaded 2, but my Xbox is at microsoft right now. (RRoD ftl) I arez bor3d.
Simple, 1, We started as Monkeys because we needed fur to survive and they were a simpler organism then a humanoid. 2, We are still evolving. Do you think that evolution happened in seconds? The change from monkey to ape took a huge amount of genarations to do. The chances are, our bodies will change so that we breathe in CO2 and breathe out O2. Humans will evolve into what makes them survive. EDIT@GoF. I don't think spam is accepted in the debate forum and wwhat kind of creationism are you talking about? 6000 year creationism or the other kind?
Ya, sure were still "evolving" I really dont thinks so, basically your saying we appeared on earth as monkeys? So the big bang theory made the earth with monkeys?
No. We started as single cell organisms. Those evolved into even more complicated organisms. And the way we eveolved was in what we needed. When we needed to survive the cold, we grew fur that protected us from the cold. When we needed to eat raw meat, we were given powerful jaws and we could tear meat to pieces. And that's how it goes. Yes, we are still evolving. Chances are, your children will have some of your more useful advantages but few of your disadvanatges. That's how it works. Failed versions of your children would die out without breeding and natural selection picks the best and the human race continues. No. The Big Bang made the universe. Earth was then formed slowly. Then single cell organisms started to appear from the conditions. The weak versions died off and the strong ones grew and grew to become the first land based animals. They evolved into what we know Earths animals are. We can see evolution in other creatures. Cats, for example, have an ancestor in sabertooth tigers. Elephants have ancestors in Mamoths. That' evolution. We can see evolution at work in Chameleons. They needed to hide from large predators so they learned how to camoflauge themselves.
From what I've read, there seems to be some misconception on what evolution actually is (mainly from eguitarplaya33 as GodofForge has yet to post any specifics), so I figured I would do a bit of elaborating on Telrad's post. I'm going to keep this explanation strictly post-abiogenesis. The mechanics by which biological evolution (not cosmic or planetary evolution) occurs is natural selection. Natural Selection is, at this point, a proven concept. Natural selection is, to put it simply, the tendency of organisms with adaptations and traits better suited to their environment to survive longer and reproduce more; thereby gaining a greater representation in their respective gene pool. The real controversy is whether or not natural selection has enough of an effect to eventually create genetic migration and form new species. In other words, macro biological evolution is what's in question, so be sure to keep your arguments rooted there. A quick response to arguments on progressive human evolution with this in mind: At this point, human evolution is minimal in comparison to other species. If a species survivability does not increase due to positive adaptations then its rate of evolution decreases. This has basically become the case in our species due to our high survivability rate and health care technology. Even with small positive additions, it is hard to top an already high life expectancy.
Right now we don't really need to adapt so we aren't getting anything new and we are always evolving do know how long it to for us to change from neanderthals to intelligent beings? Also, we started as single celled organisms then on and on we didn't pop up as humans we have only been around for 2 million years.
We are still evolving, just very slowly. The bible is not a source. There are 1 to 1.5 million species on Earth. Plants don't grow on ships. Animals would kill each other. A flood doesn't create layers, floods are water not ash.
Evolution is taking place, but not at the speed you may think. It takes more than a couple hundred for our mere beings to change. But it doesn't take much time for technological, economical, and governmental advances/changes to happen. You might be thinking of evolution as turning from a monkey to a human, but that's not just what evolution means. Okay, I think I've stated some of what I think. Time to post my beliefs. I believe that God created Evolution. Evolution was in God's Creation. Something to Ponder (maybe): Adam and Eve could have been another animal, and not human. Their looks were not described in the Bible. This could be a point or just foolishness, it is yours to decide. ^_^
What you guys have to understand about sources and such is that science itself is not biased in anyway. Strong facts are not biased! The scientists might be but not the experiment and artifacts themselves. The bible is biased because it was written. And Telrad pretty much summed up my opinion on this matter. Evolution is all about natural selection. Charles Darwin published a neat little novel about natural selection. In one instance; he talks about how he visited these two close islands. Both islands had the same exact species of a turtle. Every aspect about these turtles was the same except that each island's turtle had an interesting difference... On the first island the turtles had long necks and on the other island the turtles had no neck. Let me break it down. Island A = Long Necks Island B = No Necks Here is where it becomes very intriguing...! On Island A, the source of food was found in brushes. What does this mean? It means that in order for the turtles to eat and survive, they need long necks to reach that food. On Island B, the turtles' source of food was on the ground. This means that the turtles do not need long necks in order to eat and survive. So what does all of this tell us? It tells us that over time, the turtles on Island A started growing out necks as the food found on the ground was becoming scarce. And when I say over time I mean over hundreds of generations. The turtles that did not evolve with the rest of the others died off. That, my friends, is natural selection which is the reason behind evolution.
Not entirely true. Evolution will happen in spurts and spasms when a species is pushed against the environment. I think the most likely route with humans would be, with our high fat diets, some sort of digestive system that helps clear that gunk out. Although that is a groundless assumption.
This is totally nonsensical. The big bang theory did not make monkeys. Telrad was saying that early humans were much like monkeys. Life didn't develop for millions of years after the big bang. There was not some big explosion that sent out large chunks of land and monkeys. K I just have a little beef with this. 1. You say you are for creation because you are Christian. -OK I am Jewish and in the Old Testament it says that the earth was created in 7 days, just like in the bible. Well frankly, I believe that Jewish liturgy is more of a story of the Jewish people and a general code of ethics. Just because you are Christian, doesn't mean that you can't think about the issue. and 2. You say that if we evolve then how come we aren't still evolving. -Noticeable changes from evolution aren't seen for millions of years. Darwin gave us the theory of evolution because it made sense to him and is accepted to many scientists to this day. I like you, but you should try to understand better what you denounce.\ EDIT: ONE LAST BIT ABOUT THE G MAN. GOD. I believe he exists. I believe that the way he works in is too advanced for man. I believe that he created us in a slow and efficient way like any great being who rules over the universe would. I believe that even through strife and turmoil he has allowed the universe to exist in a secret way that no one can understand. I think there is a little god in all of us, and the only people who are truly bad abandon it. Stalin, Hitler, etc. And that is why we have been allowed to live for as long as we have.
I believe in evolution because we have tons of evidence supporting it. The reason we evolved from monkeys is that our ancestors developed certain traits that enabled them to survive better (namely, intelligence). Thus, those monkeys survived to have babies and passed down the genes for increased mental capacity, which allowed their babies to survive and reproduce, and so on. Now, some of those monkeys had other beneficial traits that enabled them to survive, as well. After a while, all those differences add up and we become an entirely different species, rather than simply a smart monkey. However, we did not start as monkeys. The same process happened with earlier primates to evolve into monkeys, and the same process happened in other mammals to produce those early primates, etc. And, as you can see, the process of evolution is very slow and takes millions of years, so we're not simply going to wake up one day and find that we all evolved wings. It's a gradual process. Not only that, but we have all but halted the process of natural selection, so changes will take place a slower rate. For example, if we lived in the wild, if someone with hemophilia was attacked, they would likely bleed to death and not pass on the genes for hemophilia, which would eventually remove it from the gene pool. Of course, it isn't a bad thing that people with hemophilia survive today, but it does mean that evolution is moving at a pace that is even slower than usual. Well, yes, actually, we do have evidence that we are still evolving. For example, several hundred years ago, the average height was shorter than it was now. And, no, the Big Bang Theory did not "make the Earth with monkeys." If you knew what you were talking about, maybe you'd know that the Big Bang released all matter and energy into the universe, but only creating basic elements. Eventually, those elements collected and coalesced, creating stars, which in turn created heavy elements. Heavy elements collected, creating planets. Eventually, the right chemical reactions occured to create the basis of life. If you're going to make an argument, try to get some facts first so that you know what you're talking about.
First point: We don't know. But, God could have created the Big Bang to create the universe. Second Point: There are billions of planets in the universe, so, although the odds of life evolving are slim, the sheer number a chances it has means that life would probably have been created somewhere. So, statistically, the odds that life would have developed are actually pretty high. As for proteins taking so long to develop, I have no idea where you got that information. The presence of Nylon-eating bacteria shows us that they developed enzymes (a type of protein) fairly quickly, not the "billions of years you stated." Third Point: That was an argument at some point, but there are numerous ways to get around it. a) Different systems can evolve for different reasons, then be adapted to suit a new purpose. b) Simpler systems can evolve to suit a purpose. As the system develops, it gets more complex, while simlutaneously losing several of the original componants. As a result, the end product appears irreducibly complex, when, in reality, it isn't. Similar instances can be seen in "Genetic Algorithms," where computers generate programs of seeming irreducible complexity, or even in natural arches, since you can't have half of an arch, either. Fouth Point: Carbon dating. That's all I really have to say about that one. Fifth Point: I honestly have no idea where you get your information from, but we do have quite a bit of evidence for the "missing links" in terms of transitional fossils. Of course, we don't have all of the information, but fossilization is complex process, so we will likely never find all "missing links," simply due to the fact that none were turned into fossils. Additionally, evolution is an ongoing process. What a fossil does is offer up a snapshot. This is comparable to, say, running. If you took 15 pictures of a runner, you still wouldn't see the whole thing. Since we are unable to get fossils from every generation of species, we can't see all of the subtle changes that took place over the millions of years.