Agreed. It's that game that got me into map making. Also, if I did buy Far Cry 2 that's all I'd do. Make maps. Nothing really else. Sure I'd play the story mode. But that's about it. I rather play Halo's MM.
You guys do realize as games come out they have overall more quality. Halo 3 came out a year ago it's not suprising if something on the 360 comes out that might be better.
Good point blake. But like stated, the only way one of these boards could exist is if we could take pictures. But either way I am getting far cry. I mean, rivers, and roads. Yes ma'am.
Even if Far Cry 2 has an amazing map-editor, and from the looks of it, it's pretty convincing, I doubt it will compare to the sense of worth you gain from creating a building with blocks other than having a pre-set one already there for you. Sure, right now you're thinking it'd really help, and it would, but you wouldn't get much creativity out of it. Although Halo 3 offers only a few main objects to create playable structures with, a few of them are worthy of being called a new map because they have created a new environment with such little resources. I think of it in these terms: Creating a building in Halo 3 Forge Place Double Box Place Double Box Place Double Box Place Double Box Interlock Double Box Interlock Double Box Place Bridge Place Bridge Place Bridge Interlock Bridge Save Changes Creating a building in Far Cry 2 map editor Place 'Building' ----- After the work put into both buildings, which one do you feel you would be more accomplished by? I would honestly say the one in Halo 3, considering the time and effort it took to create. Although it seems the map editor in Far Cry 2 is pretty much limitless, it doesn't seem it gives that sense of accomplishment. Now, if you can place separate walls, interlock, and geomerge them in Far Cry 2, then maybe maps would provide more variety and show the creativity. However, until the game is released, not much can be said to compare the likes of both Halo 3 and Far Cry 2. Each game will appeal to it's crowd, and if people find it more appealing to them, they will make the change. One thing I'd like to say is that the only thing we're really paying attention to Far Cry 2 about is it's map creator. We don't know much about gameplay other than what we can assume from its predecessor. Times have changed and the game will most likely be using a new engine (I think it's amBX). If gameplay matches up to current game standards (Halo 3, Call of Duty 4, BF:BC) then maybe it'll actually be worth it. I can't really judge anything by it's cover. All I can say is, Far Cry 2 looks very promising.
Whilst you make very valid points, I respectfully disagree. While Halo may give you more sense of accomplishment, Halo forge greatly limits your creations. While halo offers more unique structures, with Far Cry you can...well, you can make ****ing Paris. Both map editors are different in their own respects, and I believe that with Far Cry you can create vastly different environments. Anyway, Far Cry 2=No more interlocking or Geo-merging.
But really, what's the point of focusing on a single building when you have that entire landscape to sculpt to just the way you want it. Forge was good with the small stuff, but it seems like Far Cry wants to focus on the bigger picture of maps and I can't say I blame them.
OR (in my opinion) Far Cry 2 = No more skill. I'm sorry, but when you can build a building in a second, sure it's nice, but it took no skill to do. same thing with plants and mountains, from what I've seen, it works like a PS brush, in that you drag it over the terrain and it randomly creates trees and shrubbery.
Thats what I was thinking coolant. Editing isnt what the map maker is about. Its making a whole map, not just buildings in a ****ing factory. Sure, halo 3 has so many possibilities, but now I think its wrong for them to make a map maker, unless, I pray, its a whole new bungie game. But I am gladly awaiting the release of this game, as it wins a lot.
Thats if thats what you want to do. And is there really any more skill required in Forge? Putting some upside down doors on something, then double tapping A on it, and repeating until satisfied. Far Cry 2's is equally requiring as Halo, the only difference is that in Far Cry you get exactly what you tried to do, whereas in Halo sometimes you underachieve and sometimes you overachieve.
I think this would be a good thread for the Debates forum. "Forge vs. Map Makers" And for those saying Far Cry will be too easy compared to forge, you should really compare forge to some map makers like Source SDK for the Half Life's or the Unreal Map maker. Then come back and say they're easy. I guess I may straying away from consoles, but some of you need to understand. Forge isn't a map maker. You edit a current map. Not make a new one. You also need to understand I'm not dissing Forge. Its great. It does what it was made to do. Probably more than what Bungie meant for Forge. Halo 3 has what most other map making systems don't, and that is a huge fan base and a easy way to share your creations with others. It also has simplicity. Theres a few more cents from me.
Skill? While using forge is a skill it shouldn't be because all it indicates is that forge is inadequate. The real skill is creating a balanced fair and fun map, not spending time pushing an object into the floor. I can't believe people are saying that ease of use in a map editor is a bad thing. It shouldn't take 100 hours to make a map with a map maker (editor) thats ridiculous.
QFT. Far Cry has almost no limitations. No essence of luck. No huge requirement of patience or full on dedication. Everything shown is deliberate. If a map plays good, thats because the map was tested well. Maps are rewarded not for the endless hours spent on them, but for the basics. The idea, the imagination involved, and how the idea was capitalised upon.
Wish Ubisoft would do the same thing as spore did and just give us a map editor just to toy around until the game came out.
New gameS? You named one game sir. And Halo forge still presents many options for Sandbox. Now trust me, game creators are picking up on how much gamers like sandboxes, but few are being made. I agree with linu when he said forge's simplicity is part of the reason why people like it. Far cry hinted at 1000s of objects to place. It'd get difficult to find certain objects no doubt. Also i there's a very real possiblity that in this "halo 4" thing that Bungie is supposedly working on (another halo game, not halo wars) will also have a sandbox. as for forge hub, its really become more than forging, and into a community. no doubt we can evolve with the times. maybe the site will be lost, but not the community.
I think that's a little reductive TBH. I'd say that merging with a door is pretty damn skillful, especially if you consider it in the wider context of making a forge map. Making an entire structure from random objects that were arguably never even meant for such a purpose does take skill, I'm sorry but it just does. Compare making an entire building from what are essentially Lego™ blocks to making an entire landscape and placing a few, pre-made buildings on it. Both are skillful in their own way, and both are suited to the game they have been implemented in. Basically what it comes down to is geoforming and textures. These are considered the building blocks of map editors by many, and the fact that the Farcry editor has them seems to make many people automatically label it better than Forge, even though it actually lacks many of the features available in Forge that really capture the essence of what Halo is about. The building block approach is essential for Halo maps, and the ability to create and manipulate vastly complex structures is what is truly revolutionary about Forge, and has never been equalled by any editor to date IMO. Its the most important consideration in Halo maps, and I'td be a sad day if we abandoned this structural versatility in favour of the ability to geoform. On that note, I have to point out the varying roles of geoforming in Halo compared to Farcry. FC simply works on a larger scale than Halo does, and this is no better or worse. But if you were to geoform in Halo, you'd have to get the exact height, shape and positioning of every single bump finetuned to really use it properly, just think about the crafted curves or Valhalla- every curve, rock and hill has been shaped and positioned in relation to each other, think twice before saying that you could achieve this easily. I also can't see this being possible in what I've seen of the FC editor, since the scale is larger in hills work within a larger context than their individual, tiny attributes. My next point kinda leads on from that, in that Forge has one fantastic aspect which people constantly overlook. As many have said, Forge is more of a map-maker rather than an editor/creator as its commonly understood, and its even possible to say thats its actually a glorified gametyped (since you are subject to the game environment as much as you are in customs/MM. But the upside of this is the ability to switch between monitor/player mode at the press of a button, and to see the map in the same way as a player would as you build it. Again, this is essential to compliment the nature of Halo, because exact positioning, spacing, smoothness, lines of sight etc are what really make a great Halo map. The nature of Forge means that this is possible to fintune each object perfectly if you have the patience, and test things as you go whilst getting the same impression of the map as a player will (scale, how open/closed it feels, structures' relationships to each other etc.) If Halo map making lost this feature, it would go downhill really fast, and the FC style editor works in such a different way that it just wouldn't work for Halo I'm not saying that geoforming wouldn't be nice if it could be added to Halo *looks expectantly at Bungie regarding update* in a way that would make it useable and fine-tuneable, but not at the cost of the massive up-sides that forge offers thus far. What I really love about Halo is the relationship between the player and their in-game incarnation. Other games have gone for an immersive environment and have really achieved it with landscape, graphics and physics in an amazing way. But Halo has gone for a control and gameplay system that gives you unprecedented control over your character, and makes every pixel perfect movement, jump, shot or well timed crouch the make-or-break of your play. The system that Bungie have crafted has yielded a competitive game experience that is truly unique in its versitility. This is what I love about Halo, and I don't think anyone could deny that the Halo maps are perfectly suited to this end. Every little ledge or ramp is crucial: Can I crouch-jump up there? Does this corner shield me from all these vantage points or areas? Where should I push up that hill considering its exact shape? The complex and finely tuned structures in Halo are a marvel to me the more I play, and just looking at MLG players using the structures in maps like the Pit in new and fantastic ways, and hearing how much they care about exact angles, distances and heights down to the pixel just reinforces this belief that Bungie have used maps to perfectly compliment the fantastic user interface system that they have created. Even though this does mean that environments arguably take a bit of a back seat in terms of focus, they serve to supplement the essence of Halo. Forge is far from perfect, but its general thrust is towards this end of the map spectrum, the ability to create and tune complex structures in relation to each and every other structure. Even though it achieves this more than Bungie intended since the discovery of merging etc yet is still imperfect in many way, you can't deny that it achieves its end better than any other game's editor could. I'm not saying that this is better or worse than any other game experience, and each to their own by all means. But trying to thrust the more established editor ideas into Halo at the cost of Forge's clear benifits misses the whole point of Halo. Quite frankly, we don't swim in your toilet, so please don't piss in our pool. Each of these editors is much more suited to the game they have been implemented in, and saying that any editor is better or worse is kinda saying that its respective game is better or worse, which is one of those arguments that will rage on for ever. I don't say that any editor is better or worse, they are all designed for purpose and work very well in their given fields. Forge is great for Halo, and the Farcry editor looks great for FC, just remember that they are very different games, and so an editor must have very different attributes. As far as "outdated" goes, this is a more reasonable argument, since the progression in design technology does mean that the Forge route of editing could arguably be taken alot further down its own path. But, lo and behold, we have these apparent updates to Forge (or Halo map editing as it continues to exist) to turn to. I see massive things for Halo editing if all my inferences are correct, and I don't see myself going outside much for a couple of months afterwards either. Even if forge remained in its current state it would not be dead yet, but we can't even really judge its fate until we see what Bungie do next... I know this is a massive rant, and most people probably won't read it, but when people complain about Forge and don't appreciate the fantastic and unique features that it has it amazes me, especially in a Forge community. @ DTL and Squid, thanks for the kind words and being bothered to read me rants so often, I'll learn to be concise one day I promise.
Maybe Bungie will get mad at them and throw a rock at the game producers. But seriously, I think Bungie is aware that those games will come out with those new map editors and I think Bungie is working there ass of to improve some stuff to Halo, but I'll never stop playing Halo 3, and there's always Matchmaking, ofcourse.
A lot of good points pegasi. You definitely brought up a lot of good points about why forge is good. The only thing is you're assuming that Far Cry won't feature the ability to build block style arenas and such and I'm assuming it will. If it doesn't that would actually be pretty lame as a good map editor has the ability to craft the pieces that you are using. The best thing about forge IMO is that you're making maps for halo.
You do realize bungie can't stay ahead of this year's competition with extra maps? They have to work on a new game. But halo 3 does feel like a great game though, you can tell with the years of work and smoothness.
The way I see it is this: In Fry Cry you make maps. In Halo you edit maps. I don't think I can make my point more simple... and if you don't see it, then I'm sorry. EDIT: F it' I think this would be better to say: In as, Halo is good for editing maps, and Fry Cry is good for making maps. /end thread.
If you had played the first Far Cry you would your opinion would most likely be different, Far Cry sure it had some maps that could be built in a second but then there are other maps which combine a great many of the objects available to them like building blocks in that are a part of a greater structure. In the previous game I have seen tons of mind boggling maps like recreating the titanic or a space station. You might think oh there is no satisfaction using this map maker well honsetly there is satisfaction in showing people somethng they never thought possible. Halo 3's Forge has its limits there is really so much the creative mind can do with double boxes and bridges. I think you have to look at this from a different agle halo's Forge has around 100 objects or so to use and combine to create structures where as Far Cry has over 1000 objects to combine to express your creativity. In my opinion its not how you build, its what you build.