Ah, yes. This has troubled me for years. Something that has thrown my mind into unrest. Unease. Dissatisfaction. Dismay. I haven't been able to perceive this; it has only kept me ranting. I'll start at the purpose for which we live, and the purpose for which we die. You live a life to die. You live a life to be happy. Is that it? Do you live to impact upon the next in line. Do you live to spread happiness? What is happiness? Is happiness just a form of bliss? Bliss is something strange. It is always opposed. It is insulted, it is judged. It is happiness, a dry happiness that satisfies only the blissful. We live to be happy. But many are not. They always believe there's something more. I happen to believe there's something more. Something no one could dream of. We live, we are happy, we are fearful, we face our fears, we fall in love, we are crushed, we cry, we laugh, we shout, we whisper. Life is simply something that leads to death. Since death is so unknown, most fear it. Is it blackness? Is it a next life? Is it the same world? Is it a far away place? Questions without answers. Death. It has many forms. A void: just darkness. No feeling, no emotion. Nothingness. Or an inferno. Hell. A fire that burns forever, fueled by misfortunate souls. Or Heaven. The divine gates. A paradise in the clouds. It can take the shape of emptiness, torment, joy, and everything in between. Now, that traces back to religion, which is a root of evil. Religion promises conflict. The religious can never cope. I have to submit to that. I am a Christian, and I'm not too fond of atheists. I'm a victim, but what's the purpose in change? What's the point of staying the same. Life and Death in turn traces back to value. What is the cosmic value of everything and anything? Is there a point? Is there not? Most people come up with their own motivations. What makes us happy? What has meaning to us? That has many names. Selfishness. Self-obsession. Whatever. Many negative terms for what may actually be the only thing worth it. A stride towards an answer, or just a detour. Perhaps it's the wrong path. It's easily to be mislead when attempting to find the Meaning Of Life. Anyone else can speak their minds, and post their thoughts. Personally, I can easily flick a switch in my mind and perk up. I can make a transition from pessimist to optimist. But it's nice to question things now and then. Don't get the wrong picture. I'm not Goth. I'm not Emo. But don't we all wonder? A lot of things can seem wrong and irrational at times. People disagree. People fight towards now true victory. "You just conflicted with your own kind, and you call it victory. I call it ignorance." That's war for you. That may indeed be life. It's getting worse every day. Out there is pain and agony. Deprivation and starvation. A lot of troublesome/bothersome things. Is there a reason in the end?
A lot of times I wonder why there is life, and not just a big black void. Obviously, I have no way to understand why there is, but I'm just here so I might as well live my life. Not much more to add, even though you started off the thread with a nice post. Oh yeah, someone is going to say it equals 42.
IMO, I believe the meaning of life is the present moment. whatever is happening right now, at this exact second, that's life's purpose.
For now, I live for the experience. To know that I wasn't just emptiness in a blackhole. Although I'll still always question it. I can find some things to satisfy myself, for periods of time. Like music. Just listening to something that speaks to me can keep the gloom at bay.
Blacksmith, from reading your post I can tell we are similar in many ways. If I were to have made this thread instead, I would have written something very close to what you wrote. I've thought about it so, so, so much. I have devoted days to thinking about it, reasoning that if I didn't know the meaning of life, there's no point living it until I figure it out. The only reason I can come to is indeed, happiness. All of your material successes will eventually be washed away in the tide of time, so immerse yourself in the spiritual. Create happiness, make others happy, be happy yourself. I'm no religion I know of, maybe a mix of almost all of them, but I will tell you that I am most definitely not an atheist. I was raised and confirmed in the Roman-Catholic Church (possibly the largest criminal organization ever to exist) but I couldn't truly bring myself to believe some of its teachings once I actually questioned them. I believe that there indeed is some form of God, that there has to be. Life cannot simply be a chemical accident, that is just illogical to think. You are meant to be a happy soul and live a good, wholesome life, in my oppinion. Enjoy it, enjoy others, spread your love and happiness. To me, it's what makes the rockin' world go 'round.
If you're human. Then again, maybe life is something so incredible and transcendant that it has no reason and simply is. But a typical human being could never accept that.
That's a thought-provoking post, and I'll try to do it justice after I reply to some other things. I take offense to your comment. Or rather, to William Jeffreys's comment which you barely linked to. (I'd call that plagiarism, but whatever). I personally was raised within religion, but then got intellectually stimulated and sought answers elsewhere. I'd say that more people are intellectually lazy when they accept the religion of their parents without any critical thinking of their own. I suspect by your comment about Catholicism that you can relate. Please don't stereotype anyone. Actual wisdom from Mr. Jeffreys this time. The world, the universe, and existence is general is a wonderful and majestic thing. But that doesn't necessarily mean that there is a higher power involved. To quote Douglas Adams from Last Chance To See, "Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?" Although it also brings to mind another quote, this one of a different viewpoint: No, but we feel safer, more comforted, and happier when we think that everything happens for a reason. Meaning or no meaning, I don't think we'll ever know for sure, at least not in this life. But it's fun to contemplate such things, and it can open your eyes to new ways of thinking. Now if you've read the quote from Chuck Lorre above, and liked it, I'd like to share two more with you. The first is about prayer, but it is also kind of about the meaning of life. Find them all at Chuck Lorre Productions - Vanity Cards This second one is about the secret of life. To explain a little more about these quotes, they appeared at the end of the sitcoms that Chuck Lorre produced. This one encourages viewers to watch more of the program. I'm not sure if the whole "rest like a great tree" idea is best, but it seems like a good idea. Sometimes you need to get really excited or really depressed, just to experience life a little more. But I think the message is that you need stability, balance, and moderation so that life doesn't get out of control.
The meaning of life has never really effected me much, because I havnt searched for it. It just seems like such a big subject, that people have even gone mad over, that there is no point in trying. It may seem lazy, but it is my personal belief that as long as people find satisfaction (not a m in something, no matter what it seems like to others. I myself am just fine living among this strange, seemingly pointless world. I like to take animals as an example. They just live. They dont screw up the planet or are greedy, they just live. We should take them as an example. And if you look at it that way, its are understanding of a bit more (our brain) that makes us uncontent. We dont know enough that we understand everything, but we know enough to understand that we dont understand anything. Kinda sucks, huh? If there were no humans on this planet, I would rather be born as a bunny rabit. Or a turtle. Oh and one more thing, this is googles approch on the meaning of life: answer to life the universe and everything - Google Search
Meant to put quotes on that paragraph...but I ADD'ed away from that on my thought pattern. I totally agree with you, Furious. A child blindly being force-fed the religion of their parents is kind of a sad thing, because most of them will not go find their own answers. I will refer to the quote I put in my Zeitgeist thread. The truth cannot be told to you, it can only be realized. As for the atheist portion... An Atheist is someone who does not believe in God, correct? So if I say support the belief that an Atheist is intellectually lazy for dismissing the idea of "GOD," that's not being steriotypical. That's an oppinion that refers to all Atheists, but if they are true Atheists and have no belief in a higher-power and that there is no reason to life and that the world just is and wasn't created by something, then that oppinion would not be wrongfully stereotyping. It would apply to every single Atheist, it would not insult other Atheists because they all believe the same thing. From what I've learned and read, those are the traits of Atheism. If I'm misled, please tell me. A person who doesn't believe in God, but also believes that there is a reason to life, and that the world was created wouldn't be considered an Atheist, under my understanding. If that's how you roll, don't take offense to that oppinion, since it doesn't apply to you. And are you saying that you were intellectually stimulated by religion? I don't understand why you would leave it then. Can you please explain your beliefs so I can understand you better, if that's not too much to ask. P.S - Totse, ftw?
Logically, we can follow the course of life in other species and determine that the meaning of life is narrowed down basically into improving the species. Whether or not that impetus for improvement is a sentient thought or a natural instinct is beyond the point; every living species on this planet wishes to live. An entire species will not just decide to commit suicide and destroy it's genetic linkage. (I think from Ender's Game.) My view of the meaning of life itself is, after considerable philosophical pondering, an attempt to escape the boring delusions of life. It's like being trapped in a maze, and you need to endeavor through the pathways in order to get out of it. The place you would escape into from life? No clue. Fbu's take on the meaning of the universe: but nemi is actually the meaning of the universe
I apologize for getting somewhat off topic, but with a topic as broad as The Meaning of Life, it should be expected. I meant that I was in religion, being intellectually lazy, not questioning anything, and then I learned more about things like philosophy, evolution, physics, and especially religious history. When I learned about the history of the major religions, I began questioning the entire belief structure. There are so many lies, that it's hard to believe anything that they teach. So I thought long and hard about the probability of God, and found it to be very low. No one can prove or disprove the existence of God. In fact, the only way we can possibly ever truly know that he exists is if he proves it himself, by revealing himself to the world. People may say that he has already, through Jesus or whatever, but that brings be back to the history of lies. So please don't call me intellectually lazy. I don't believe in God, but I did not dismiss the idea outright. I did my share of thinking and pondering, and I drew my own conclusions. I would say that someone who believes in God without evidence (blind faith) would be more intellectually lazy because they never considered the possibility that he does not exist. But I would also like to add that although life may not have a meaning or a purpose, in my own mind, I still live my life fully and morally. To return to the quote above, "be kind and loving" and "have fun while it lasts". And I'd also like to say that although I don't attribute the universe to a creator, that doesn't lessen my appreciation of its beauty. Like I said above, "the world, the universe, and existence is general is a wonderful and majestic thing".
It's a logical take you have there, Nemi. But for me,( I know I sound like a hippie or something) it's too physical. There has to be something emotional or spiritual we are to do in this life that will be meaningful for what comes after. Because, face it, your body isn't coming with you. Maybe improving the species is that certain thing. Who knows. And maybe Nemi is actually the meaning of the universe. P.S - Any luck with Ensiferum?
Maybe the meaning of life...is to find the meaning of life. You have to see it from my point of view to know what I'm saying. Some may go their whole life finding the meaning or truth of life, getting us a step closer. Finding out the meaning of life could ruin culture, though, if we try to change it. I think we shouldn't feel obligated to find the meaning of life, rather respect that there is a meaning of life. We should leave finding this alone, because it would only create chaos. It's hard to explain and I don't think anyone will understand what I mean
Furious, you are definitely not intellectually lazy. I followed virtually the same path you described and discovered the same things, but the only difference is that I have come to a different conclusion. I agree on the blind faith thing too. There is a fine line between the admirability and stupidity of a life lived devoted to a God. If I classified you as an intellectually lazy person, I would only be saying the same thing about myself.
opothehippo stated that animals don't mess up the planet. That may be true, but they mess up what's on the planet. Currently, it has been suggested that large constrictor snakes have been migrating further into North America. Eventually, they'll take the New World entirely, and we'll find them in our backyards. So, as long as two things are different, conflict is bliss. Without conflict, there wouldn't be peace. Without sorrow, there wouldn't be joy. Without pain, there wouldn't be comfort. It's all a contradicting idea. I personally enjoy writing , and put my struggles and thoughts into stories that I've never ended up writing. A book where a party of travelers search far and wide for the meaning of life, and what they find is too much for humanity altogether to handle. Truthfully, that may indeed be it. We can't figure it out because all we can think of is something that will fulfill our uneasy minds. We don't think into the downfalls. What would cause humanity to crumble? Put the pieces of the puzzle together, and the look at the puzzle from every angle. What most do is put together only a fragment of the puzzle, and guess from that. We can only assume, which isn't a definite method. And now into religion. It is hard to believe in a god from thinking alone. But now begin to ponder on experiences. I was given the blind-faith treatment as a child, and fell for it for some time, until I developed philosophy and that mature stuff that has triggered my pondering consciousness. But I was drawn back into the Lord's grasp because of the experiences in my recent life. Bad, unfair, unlucky, wretched things (or whatever you'd call the spiritually discomforting events) began to occur here and there. Hints of faith clung to my cerebellum. My parents, being hardcore Christians, convinced me to pray. I prayed. I attempted to ask the Big Man in the sky for help. Whoa. A bright and happy day. Good fortune. It couldn't be possible. Yes. I disagreed for some time. I may be sounding foolish, or blissful, or whatever the term may be. Religion had no purpose if it's all a lie. The history of lies may be incorrect. So let's just focus on the present. And things truly helped me through some difficulties when I began to turn towards a god. So I am a Christian, but not the hardcore type my parents are. I don't often go to church, I'm busy playing on the forge. That brings me to a few more points, again. I enjoy the forge on Halo 3. It makes me happy. It's something desirable. And then I think of desire. Is desire evil? It makes me question the words of the bible. "We can only prove that a god exists if he showed himself to us." And in the bible, it tells us that he'll only show himself to the ones that believe, and take them with him to heaven, while the others are left for seven years to be reigned over by the anti-Christ. No second chances. And reading the bible, it seems that their are so many requirements for being truly faithfully. It's that thought that a part of you wants to believe, but another part of you wishes to avoid, while the center of you looks back and forth between your conflicting natures, disorientated. Nothing can truly be at peace if they bare sentience, I suppose. Good, evil. They are a package deal. Pleasure and happiness are all we can run back to, although sometimes we don't want to. We want to forge on into a void that will lead us to nothing but more confusion. But if we settle ourselves with the "Happiness theory", we'll never feel truly satisfied. We're in too deep. Pardon me for mentioning the word, "we" so often. I suppose I mean myself. I feel as if I'm in too deep. And there we have it. Another theory. Perhaps the meaning of life is the meaning of sentience, and the product of all this deep thinking. Unhappiness, confusion, unrest, dissatisfaction. All the bad could be the answer. All the good could be the incorrect. But it's just another theory. Is any answer true? Is it all wrong? Perhaps the end is the true purpose, and we must simply bare it through until it arrives. Sometimes you want to give up, you may be in too deep. The end, or death, will get you out of it. Still, suicide is wrong to most, no matter how deep I think. It’ll always be a crime of integrity. Sometimes I want to forge on, to get nowhere and want to give up again, and repeat. It’s a never-ending cycle that’ll only end when it all ends. But then you think that there’s more, yet again. And we’re off once more to be cast into the pit of wondering. Fighting the elements, fighting yourself in a mental war. But that may not be it. It’ll always be questioned, and I’ll always contradict myself. I guess it’s just who I am. Who are you? That may indeed be yet another theory. And there you have it, you want to give up at thinking again. It’s just too much a hassle. But you can’t stop. I’ll think, and I’ll think, to no avail. I’ll stop for the moment, and pick up where I left off, to nowhere. Who needs a conclusion, perhaps it’s just too out of reach. Bleh. Sigh. Something. Nothing. Who knows? Who cares? Who believes? It’s a hassle. I’m a strange individual. It’s right, it’s wrong, but it’ll always be… something to think about.