Please don't encourage flaming. We're having a debate, and we welcome different viewpoints. It isn't a bandwagon. People just considered the evidence and made a decision. Personally, I made mine after reading a book called The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. One of the chapters had a great deal to do with evolution. He basically shows how it is true, lists the major complaints people have against evolution, and then replies to those complaints. For all the bickering, no one has presented any evidence here against evolution besides the Bible. I'd be happy to try to reply to any evidence if any can be posted. Sounds like you need more negative rep, lol. That post wasn't on topic either. This is a debate about evolution, not a place for you to ***** about the rep system. Feel free to reply here with another off topic post.
Top Evidences Against the Theory of Evolution is a great site that disproves a lot of the theories of evolution. To be honest though I don't really know which way i agree with. I just got this because Furious D wanted something to debate. lol
Thanks, I'll read that and post a reply. I'm not an expert on the subject, but I've done some reading about it in the past. EDIT: Oh baby, I'm gonna make a massive post here to smash some of the things on that site. I'm not gonna use big words like they do (probably), but that doesn't make it less true.
ezeke, your first paragraph is really stupid, the spelling and grammar are atrocious, and Gay marriage is a distraction from the soldiers?! WTF!? JAY, you are being stupider. Again this is only my opinion.
AHHhh... one of my best topics ever to have... Starting out I am for a lane right in the middle here... The biggest point that this topic has turned to is was it creation or evolution that created the world we live in... Being a Rationalist... I would say... both is true... Before you laugh, think about it. If god created the world in 7 days..and then after so many years... Evolution in some sense would have had to happen... Its simply, creatures over time have to adapt .. It would be other wise to suggest that... Now on to Dino's . .... Think Titmar has a point here... Ever seen a Lizard... what is the case if you ever had a Lizard or snake or w/e... They grow to the size of the tank till they die... right? Well Give them a never ending life span on a perfect earth before the fall of man and you have it... ON to carbon dating for a clean up kill... For any one that has seen limits in math should be able to keep up with me.. Carbon dating is a Limit graph set up for proof of how long an object has been decaying... right? well for some odd reason looking at a limit graph you can't simply put a limit on where a limit can end at... Alright I probably lost you on that... so this carbon in this fossil is 0.1232155613656516513456161323561623 w/e carbon raido active decay.. in w/e half life... the point is... How do you know what life it is in in what life when it could be in any life span... think of a limit graph and place another limit over it.. they intersect to many times to be able to tell which curve your on... when saying the limit is on the same time... (when time began...) so simply put from a math point of view is a BIG hole in Carbon dating..WHich is why I hate it... Now to the man that created it... There is rumor that he did the test... Ended up with a biblical Time dating ...AND changed that test... I have never found the proof but as much as this is a rumor..I would more be willing to see that a smaller bell curve of 30,000 years for carbon dating working then one 1,000,000,000,000... etc... because your streching the line on my trust... Now simply put Nitrous.. If your going to link Bible ref. Be careful...this isn't a threat... Just saying when you use one text translated it varies from NKJV and so an so forth... I usually look at greek and Latin context to understand verses... before fully taking them literally..it would be an error to not..because any modern day writer... or even translator know when you convert from one lang to another some context is lost... the bible translations are a tool and only the literal text is the word of good to me... Now on to some other fun stuff I read in this topic... talking snakes... That will not be the end of it I am afraid... Snakes or also translated as Serpents.. also in some interpretations Dragons.. are already thought to talk...look at Asia belief system... kinda strange when They were separated for so long... having a similar Ideal... Big bang...kinda already covered..isn't it when you look at all the tid bits I keep talking about it...alright simply ... there was this ball of every thing ... and then BOOM went to a big mess and then... it slowly got into a perfect place and in Such a perfect place that it was able to create life here ON Earth... We must be that Damn luck... I must say.... Strings... HA... so what makes up string... there is a theory and says something makes up strings.... Not biblically found ..the guy that wrote it didn't catch it..But came to a point where he started believing the bible after he finished his paper... Sound ...all the matter in the world made of sound... Such an irony when you think of the bible... HE said it and it was done... So want to hit something else my way? I mean we can change the topic to Creationism against ... Random Creation with a big part of luck to add in for good meassure... because all I have seen is that appear... and btw I had a question in my Science Class ask me in Short ans... How old is the earth... In my oppion that is an open ended question.... I put the bibical ans... belive it or not...I got it wrong... SO teaching Evloution is school where you have to give the correct ans..to other terms is just as wrong as mind control... but w/e... Because that case is lost a long time ago... because kids have to know where we came from at a young age... they simply can't make up there own minds...... I like to flip this to defend some of the Christians attacked by IF you weren't blind by Religious teaching...Would you have came to the idea of evolution by yourself? or did you have to taught it in school..because it being required in school almost presents it fact to many people and Quite truly I am tired of seeing Theory and Fact miss understood... O btw I am waiting for the day (saying this with a joke...) That they find cloning to be effective if you use the rib of a person as a starting point... there is many other Irony's.. like this in the bible. I can find them if you like... GOOD God I got long winded... as well for the Evolution of Mankind... Lucy Oldest human fossil ...What happened to her? Want to know more ASK me I dare you!
I'm going to do my best to answer all of those problems. 1). Actually we have found many hominid transition fossils. :\ Terrible arguement to start with. Click Here for In depth analysis! 2). I don't really see how they can say Natural selection isn't enough. If your mutation creates a bum leg and you can't outrun your predators your genes don't get passed on. I don't see how they could even try to make that arguement. Click Here for more Info. 3). 2/3rds of this rebuttal is based on different scientific theories not evolution. What they don't do is classify what constitutes life. Are they meaning consciousness? The ability to grow and divide? If they are speaking of the latter then non-life according to science can do it. I.e. Vesicles operating through thermodynamics. 4). This was just an outright lie, not worthy of a response... 5). 9/12? Really? I could have sworn we were up to 20. This site appears to be outdated, as well as their info that 9 of these are proven false. More Info 6). I have never seen a human being with 48 chromosomes in its genome, I expect to never find one...because it is not possible. The three they are trying to pass as human not only look differently but contain 48 chromosomes. 7). They are trying to link Natural Selection to man's will. We have no control over natural selection. If we attempt to it becomes artificial selection. I.e. The banana. 8). This was disappointing, they turned it from a (barely) scientific discussion into an ID proponent discussion. It really became a ramble towards the end. Natural Selection does not have logical inconsistencies... 9). If that were true then we would have poodles in the Cambrian and dinosaurs on the top layer of strata. It doesn't happen. This is an outright lie on their part...
I know this is kinda short and all but I just thought I'd say that when you think about it so simply then maybe it does sound a bit silly. But if you think like this then you really are a bit dumb... Firstly just because you can't see air, doesn't mean it isn't there. It's not "nothing" that exploded, it's the particles and atoms and all that other tiny tiny stuff that slammed into each other to 'cause a massive explosion etc. I don't know very much about it but I know enough to realise that it wasn't "nothing exploded and that's how we are here"... Anyway, if you really wanted to know you do have Google there to help.
Evidence against Evolution in quotes from this site, and my responses to them: First Creationists are notorious for quoting Darwin out of context. None of the examples given above are examples of one species working exclusively for the good of another species. They always get something beneficial from it. Second, the actions of the animals in the examples above actually promote natural selection. Any act which promotes the survival of the animal (or the animal’s offspring or kin) also promotes the survival of the genes that cause that behavior. And humans also exhibit altruism. Early humans lived in tribes where they helped and protected each other. Social behaviors like trading were enforced through natural selection, since you were more likely to survive if you worked with someone else when you needed to. But environments change. Historical and geological data show that the atmosphere changes, the PH balance of the ocean changes, the temperature changes, etc. Life is able to adapt to these changes through natural selection. Creationists love to imply that evolution is all about chance. They couldn’t be more wrong. Natural selection favors life that is most suitably adapted to its environment. There is nothing random about it. There they go again. Evolution is not random. That’s untrue. Surely we can agree that some animals have better eyes, or faster legs. That means that some species have evolved farther than others. Creationists argue about irreducible complexity, which states that certain things, such as the eye, are too complex to have evolved from something simple. If the eye cannot have evolved, it must have been designed. But the eye could have evolved. For example, moths have very limited vision. Their eyes detect little more than blotches of light. But their limited vision helps them survive. Over time, creatures with better eyesight survive, while creatures with limited sight die off. The genes for good eyesight get passed on through natural selection, and eventually we have very complex eyes. So we do in fact see animals with “partially evolved biological structures”. And irreducible complexity is where Creationists make their biggest mistake. Those who believe in Intelligent Design say that life on this planet is too complex to have arisen naturally, and that something (God) must have designed us. But wouldn’t the designer need to be more complex than us? Who designed the designer?
Do you even understand the undertaking of converting the bible from its native Hebrew to English? 100+ men for 10+ years, tirelessly converting it to the English language. It was NO small task. For me to learn Hebrew would be foul-hearty and a waste of my time. Even if there are minor mistranslations the bible is quite clear in what it means... The concept of dragons originated in Asia and was transferred to the Western world via The Mongols and Huns. Not created at the same time... I would hardly call the universe perfect. But if you do, it was only doing what physics told it to. I mean if you expect a marble to roll down a hill and throw enough of them maybe eventually they would begin to form a pile. Poor example but I don't think you really understand what you just said. I would expect quarks and gluon plasma. With the large hadron accelerator we may find another thing that makes up gluon plasma. Unfortunately I was not taught in school. All of knowledge was learned on my own, thinking critically and studying the subject. Theories are facts, I have outlined this several times in other threads. Actually cloning with a rib bone would not be work, we need to use unfertilized gametes and artificially inseminate them with the subject's own DNA. Ribs will not work. You need sex cells. Tell me about lucy.
Quote: Do we look at an airplane and say that the order and interdependence could have come about by chance? How can we look at something infinitely more complex (a person, for example) and say it? Creationists love to imply that evolution is all about chance. They couldn’t be more wrong. Natural selection favors life that is most suitably adapted to its environment. There is nothing random about it. Ahh... Evolution and Natural section are not random but the agents that cause them are... that path that you take to evolve is random...In simply put its in the Random transfer of Genes that change that Again randomly produce a new add to each Life variation .. Seems like we have taken a path on to Natural section...Seems like every one was reading that page source some one sent and missed what I said... please comment me back on that... Now believe it or not its really ironic Natural section I will agree has every base in evolution but what matters for evolution this seems to become again a line of Christianity and Science... I have been on the Science side for most of the Evolution... but Keep drawing the line at the beginning of time... Its almost Ironic that the random events that cause Natural section..in my terms also out line a predestination... as well... the perfect line of time where each evolution happens and keep the genes of that type of life going...but I am getting ahead of myself... talking about an end when we are debating about the beginning... SO how does Evolution keep getting tied into Religion... because I am Christian And have been for awhile.. as well alright with evolution under some terms of time understanding... ANd I just read Nitrous comment...(don't really need to copy the text I think...) Marbles aren't that easy to come by... when I look at a small bag of mine...keep trying...maybe you will find something that will do the trick.. Now FOR Lucy... Lucy as far as the text book goes... is the oldest human Fossil...thus meaning out lined from some of Furious comment..is a early evolved human different' from today human..and such... but that isn't the point... believe it or not.. Lucy wasn't found in one place but a few places... Across the world.. and I would leaving this a bit shorter then the other... What the hell happened to Lucy? Crap forgot to keep with my Rib comment... that was simply a joke... because of flowing the bible notes of being the best way..in the long run... As Far as we know...you need sex sells... or o wait.. there even using umbilical cords as stem cells..which..is kinda ironic to your statement of your have to use sex cells... Facts change over time..just the same as the your Theories... But I have never seen a simple Flaw to the bible when its tested with truth... and btw I know a bit of Greek and Hebrew..and its almost an insult to say its a waste of my time... I am just saying to understand a topic you must dig deep into understanding..just not cliff notes of ones interpretations... NOW thats a fact...! AHH just read the comment over the Dragon... thats was my point... Cultures FAR apart having similar concepts of a similar creature.. Its almost the same chances of your marbles... in my world theres isn't much room for Cosmic Events...not any more at least...
How delightfully condescending. I could reply that evolution follows facts while religion follows fairy tales. Yep, you're probably right about that.
Hey lets come down now..both of you... lets just call it a day... back away... this is a debate not a halo 3 match... both of those were Points of views about the others.. belief... I think it isn't needed..and unless your supporting or defending its considered spam... Still kinda waiting for an agreement to the points I made about Evolution and not to my Religion...
Lol he's bagging you now? Uhh... You just "bagged" logic... You had it coming Oh also Evolution/Logic is right and Religion/Fairy Tales is wrong. And that's my opinions ♥ Oh and on the point of that "Scientists way of making money" thing Scientist get much less recognition for what they discover and much less money then the church scams out of people ever year, tax free might I add. So much worse things can be said about your "moral" religion, don't start a flame war in the debates thread...
How delightfully tolerant. I don't really know how to reply to that because I don't understand what you just said. Well I guess god took her body parts and scattered them across the globe. Umbilical cords...you mean the things that are produced from sex cells? Wow, I've got to hand it to you. Your really good at repeating what I already said. Body cells have certain limits, that prevent cloning with those cells as of right now. But if you can do it with a rib bone, you can do it with any bone or any cell in the body for that matter. The bible statement was puzzling seeing as I quoted a few verses that don't seem to make out God to be such a great guy. The New Kings James Version is hardly a cliffnote of the bible. You would think a theist, of all people, would know that. And no, to understand a topic you don't have to dig deep. I know a lot about evolution, but I don't understand a lot of the cellular complexity that goes along with it. While I'm not an expert in the field, I am competent and understand most basic and intermediate concepts and can convey them to the public. Likewise you don't have an autobiography of Jesus no matter what language you learn. What you have is religious rederick which is good enough for you. I said mongols and huns brought the idea on their conquests. That's not having similar concepts, its sharing. No ridiculous probabilities there. In my world there is a lot of room for Cosmic Events. The reason you lack it in yours is because you don't have an understanding of cosmic evolution. You've never attempted to study it. You just say whatever sounds good and hope it makes sense. To the uneducated eye, perhaps. To me, your just babbling about complexities and probabilities that aren't there.
Ouch Mr Nitrous... That is almost a personal attack at the end there... I mean... umbilical cords... as sex sells?ISn't it STEM Cells... I am afraid..any cell is created by it here an from any other already body cell which before that body cell first came from a sex cell or directly from a sex cell... I mean unless your Jesus... Which I am not guess to say...your body was from sex cells ... so by all means... If i am repeating what you said.. by all means the worlds sounds echo's Now for the lines of Lucy..your agreeing that God tossed her all over the place for a point...( you kinda tossed the idea out..) by all means. .. there is a reason for it... Marbles aren't easy to come by..when you only have one chance to toss... each day the sand and wind on a beach blow a different' pattern into the grades of sand... and yes I have seen the lines in the sand so the chance of certain events by physicist law of nature still hasn't taken out the account of god... I mean your almost attacking the idea... but missing the argument of evolution... is Evolution the point of ideal or is it just the wrench to take down something that is up there? I mean... I came to God while I was majority depressed at looking at a world with crazy cosmic events... as you put it.. and All I saw was a world dieing... or going to die... I can ask it only one thing... Why..? and by all means... I never got the reply... I sought death..but by all means... Never found it...and I am glad I never did... not yet at least... because at the same time... looking at the complex math... of the world... I found a bit of a understanding... how complex numbers work... Ever seen a number of chain of events unfold of a mass of such area... I mean... the idea of a butterfly beating it wings causing a ripple in the wind else where... Don't tell me its cosmic... its has to have some point of all ...Taking my god out... its still this massive Complex event that is still just perfect.. Physic and Luck don't always get along...but the world makes it all come down to the end.. of truth... simply tossing aside a divine idea... is like taking out the same random event all together... I mean.. simply put.. what randomly cause it all to start..even the Big bang lacks motive... or cause to that cause to that cause to that cause to that cause... unless it has a point to understand start... every thing would have had to been here already ... and already have been perfectly started... BOTH idea's still support a god... and still has it been ... I mean... insulting the Church I am all for it... The non Tax collecting of money... and teaching doctine... w/e look at the simple line out lined out in the bible... take out others understanding of it... its how you understand what christ said...I mean... almost all the comments made about Christianity was made by bold, vague understanding... I looked into both religoiun and Evolution and came out with something at least in the middle..because no one has really taken this out of it way to argue... I mean... your attacking a God ..or I am attacking a group of Phantoms that wrote ever so many theories...your basing your thoughts on others no matter where you go... NO matter that fact ... I mean the mere Idea you learned everything by yourself it just cocky... if your arguing about evloution defend it... don't just simply say... Its fact and Your GOD is lies...that disagree with what we found to be true for the moment... and I haven't said GOD as a fact... What I have presented is testimony..of what I have seen...and read when you think about points of views... its all about the same Cosmic events as your friend Lucy or even my God... its just a really big mess that happened by w/e or defined for just the right reason... ....
I agree, but to any hardcore Christians out there: Who's going to believe in a giant puppet master with a beard who magically waves his magic wand and create everything? **** off, you know that's bull! People say: "How did the big bang happen out of nowhere then?" I won't answer that, YOU look it up, but when you say "Nothing can exist from nothing!", I can say the same about "God". How the **** could God exist? There are SO many things I could say but I'd probably create a riot. That's enough for now.
Thats a good point... I said it could... I am still greatly wondering how God got into the topic of debate... I have again and again proven that God and evolution can co exist...both ideas...not to both extremest...but right in the middle... SO simple... how is this debate moving... evolution is the target... no one has really broken my point... I mean... WE have attacked the Heck out of religious..beliefs..but every hole I have kicked in the door over Carbon dating and the year of when the universe was made is brushed over... I mean... I am fine with the God topic... still holding strong..to the ideal... This imaginary God of mine still able to exist EVEN with evolution in the mix.. its shocking I know but that wasn't the debate... it was simply the fact of evolution... I believe it... but only to a certain point... So care to have a back up point? I mean I have kinda hit home with the points of how there is flaws even in the theory of Evolution... I will not say you need to toss the book out but only some points made in it...
Evolution has theories that have been all but proven, and religion has a book written thousands of years ago.