I don’t really agree with the idea of ‘over-telegraphing’, unless something becomes a distraction to the other options avaliable to the player. They can still feel that reward, because some things will inevitably be communicated more subtly. The primary options should always be the most apparent. The discovery shouldn’t be a result of something intentionally being hidden from the player, unless we’re talking about secret passageways and very specific examples. I’ll use the map I’m currently working on as an example: There is a vent passage used as a sneaky flank route. I used a brighter wall to contrast the vent, and I put a vent cover on the ground that people can see from more angles on the map that communicates there is a vent. I also used the wood paneling to contrast the stone, so players’ attention is drawn to the broken ceiling, and they understand that a player can drop into this location (and that they can jump up into the higher floor). They are still less apparent options, but I did make an effort to communicate that they are available.
https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/for-chub/video/85750138 @Blaze This map is extremely accessible for the enemy player, I love how easy they are able to access my spawns.
Does murder miners run on Chromebook? Heheheh, my son is interested bc of I told him about u. I don't think its bad to hide things a little, as long as you give people the need/desire to explore the map.
By hiding, I’m saying to not make the effort to communicate. Nobody has said it word for word, but they have made implications of it in the past, and there are maps that still reflect that way of thinking. @Chronmeister I’m not sure. It’s a pretty basic game, so I would think so. But, high player lobbies can get laggy, even on xbox one.
This is a really old argument I think. There's no reason to think that a map can't hold up under stress and still be played casually. By definition, casual play doesn't stress the map, so even straight up bad maps can be played to the same effect. So I ask, shouldn't maps might as well be designed with the potential to be played by pros?
@Chronmeister Halo 5 at its core is a squad shooter. The game makes you choose between shooting and moving. This seemingly insignificant detail, takes the game completely out of the realm of what Halo was supposed to be. Players and Designers want to ignore this fact. They dont want this too be true. They want Halo 5 to be Halo, and most designers will do everything in there power to retain this identity. They will design maps in order to make the "unable to shoot and move abilities" take a back seat. I dont blame them for this. What Halo 5 actually is, is an absolute monstrosity. I have not been afraid to explore some of these aspects and at the cost of many people not treating my designs with respect. Im fine with that, Ive accepted that. I DQ'd my own map, because it was quite clear, the judges were looking for a "HALO" Halo 5 map and not a Halo 5: Guardians (Mobile Suit Squad Shooter) map. If I wanted to win the contest, I know exactly what I would have built, and I think, with all the people with talent around me, combined with my own talent, I would have won easily.
@Xandrith Thanks for pointing out that the jump on your map! I loaded it up to try it out some today and got it first try. I really wanted the path to work when I played it in the first round, but now I think I can get it to work for the second round for sure.
@Sethiroth Watched through some of your stream from tonight. Seriously, thank you for walking through the maps again. I'm glad people are starting to get the jumps and understand pathing more, and now that you guys see what's there, I won't be bothered if you end up hating it. and @LargerFiend I only just saw your map and I really liked what I saw
My point isn't that a map shouldn't have the potential to be played on a professional level just that the best choice is the one that the bulk of the community will enjoy. There are a lot of things that pros expect on a map that quite frankly others will find boring. Casual maps can be designed for pure pleasure which is not entirely conducive to long-term play but that's not necessarily a bad thing either. However in the case of the contests like I mentioned previously I would lean somewhere between casual and enthusiast level gameplay and not require pro level support mandatory. Otherwise with such a strict limitation you may find that a number of potentially great maps may never get added because they view the task too great or the map design too structured. Enthusiasm is what drives this whole machine and I understand that it can be frustrating for some people who consider themselves more than capable of building a pro level map but are not getting the accolades they feel they deserve along with the shrine and virgin sacrifices. Instead they may find themselves delegated to the third place slot beaten by what they feel are far inferior maps. What can I say, popularity wins in the face of all other things. In this sense no judge should be a pro and all things should be based purely on enjoyment (barring anything brutally game breaking). Imagine if you will a world where you only went to see movies that professional reviewers thought were great and skipped all the movies they hated. I don't know about you but I would probably stop watching movies all together. tl;dr Pros suck, casuals rule!
Watching Seth’s stream has got me considering doing something similar. Would anyone be interested in me streaming my thoughts on maps?
I'm sure people would enjoy hearing you ramble on as much as anyone Go for it @WARHOLIC Could we get a whiter set of thumbs up, I feel that these don't properly convey my Scottish/Irish heritage.
Hey thanks! I actually tried to delete it a few days ago but couldn't find a delete button on the map page LOL I do regret not putting enough time into the look of it, more specifically the lighting. At some point I just accepted generic 343 UNSC in the forge lighting system will never look good.
So i think you over estimated what i meant by overtelegraphing. Because I'd argue even in your example here you demonstrate a level of subtlety. You used environmental context to draw the players eye to that location, but it wasn't blatant. When I mean overtelegraph, I mean super obvious things that practically insult the players intelligence. Say now for instance that you had painted an arrow on the wall at that sneaky route, and then wrote in text, "sneak here to get the drop on people" that would be overtelegraphing
I would put that in the category of ‘something that distracts the player from the other options available’. Alright. If I’m to do the streaming idea, I would prefer to get suggestions on what map to do. It can but doesn't have to be your own, and it doesn’t have to be from the contest. Preferably 2v2, but that’s also flexible.