How many points and how many points within points? What are the points? What points have more value? How do you decide what has value? Do some points matter more depending on what is being done? How does the goal interact with the points? etc. This is what I think about everyday while grilling.
If nothing is axiomatic, then we wouldn't even be able to communicate. Something has to be at the foundation of logic, or logic can't exist. Just by talking and pursuing things of value in the world, you are conceding not only the truth of hierarchy, but the necessity of it. There are patterns to be learned, obstacles to overcome, and a choice as to where we aim. You can disagree, but by disagreeing, you're admitting to the world that you hold something as objectively true at the core of your beliefs. It's a performative contradiction.
In a level design context i understand and agree with the hierarchical point that has been made simply because you really cant avoid hierarchy. I also agree with counter argument that's basically saying its all subjective. Regardless end the argument supporting subjectivity immediately. Youre just wasting time with the same objective vs subjective debate again. There can be progression if we discuss objectivity. Not so much with subjectivity. Even if its from a hypothetical standpoint, if you all can manage to discuss level design objectively, then you should define what characteristics a good level designer or their maps achieve. Either that or what kind of scale determines where a level designer will fall. Now obviously its extremely complex but i dont believe a foundation at the most simple of terms is out of reach. ------------------------------------- "Also, I'd be open to the whole "I enjoy what I play therefore it's the best" mindset if THIS wasn't the result of said design genius" I full **** love you but **** this comment Multi. I could plug any map into the link and pretend im stating some objective truth and it be just as legitimate per my own world view. Its just meaningless, exaggerated, bullshit flavortext meant to destroy the maps reputation with the current momentum of dislike against soldats recent character. As a 1v1(and 4 FFA) map it is leagues above every other that placed in the competition. Its not even personal... I may be listed as a coforger but its still 95% his design. -------------------------------- To Jesse as someone who feels like i know you better than anyone here and even consider you a friend forever... here is my honesty on recent happenings. You have personally told me that you believe youre the best level designer on forgehub and were being 100. I remember the moment plain as day because i made it a point not to respond or engage with the thought. You were so caught up with bloodlet throne being a masterpiece that you began the "**** everyone on forgehub" phase because they werent bowing to its majesty. I believe this was also around the time you made a comment that everyone freaked out about because it was "sexist." That is when you began the trolling here because you legitimately didnt care what anyone had to say or feel a need to fish for likes from them anymore. Now you claim it was all shitposting but i believe youre just attempting to backtrack and its honestly just digging you deeper. I think you should be real for a second and clear some of this up because i think youre the only one here who still sees it as a game. Its time to either save face or cement your reputation here as a meme. I can respect someone who will admit their faults but i cant respect whatever youre playing at anymore because its throwing me off too. Yeah i already can hear your laughing to this in my head but there is an important note to be made here. Your reputation here does matter if you want to continue to engage with the one community that is passionate about forging too. Although youre a great guy in person this is the place that most people will base their opinions of you from and it is also the main apparatus of escalating the reach of a forgers work. Even if you were the best forger in the future no one will recognize it simply because of their presumptions of you. Halo 6 is going to drop and you know you will want your work to be evaluated honestly and logically rather than disregarded or devalued simply because people have a bias against you. If you think youre the best designer state why. If you werent serious then flat out say it so they'll stop being such pricks because theyre clearly worked up about it. Lastly start being yourself here again because the persona youre portraying is gay.
Confidence is generally off-putting, even when it is merited. There's something about people that really doesn't like self-proclamation. But when confidence comes along that doesn't seem merited, and the person in question refuses to back up their claims, it's really going to be off-putting.
Have you guys ever had what we call “Armadillo Eggs” here in Texas? Half a jalapeño with cheese or cream cheese inside, wrapped with bacon and cooked on the grill? Man I could eat those until my anus catches on fire. Especially if the Bacon is burnt.
I agree there has to be a best at level design but it's just no one can possibly agree on how to judge this as there is so many parts of and ways of understanding level design. There isn't just set criteria that if you meet you're the best. It's easier to pick out a best when judging very specific things but without some specific agreed criteria, which we lack, there can really be no best at level design. Not to mention the best may change all the time. Think about sports, let's say the 100m sprint. Whoever wins the olympics or whatever is considered objectively the fastest person in the world simple. However this changes all the time and even with this example the winner of the race may not be the real fastest person. They just met the set criteria of winning the race. So yes, there is a best at level design but we'll never know who it is. It could even be Soldat... P.s. I've seen your video before Multi. I've seen the whole series and it's great but it doesn't answer my question...
Get this communist bullshit outta here And yes I know I'm not going to answer your question because it's nonsense and provocative and you asked like a *****. My boy no God keeping it hunned :allegiance:
Why do I feel like you haven't read any of this conversation? I've already been over this, but I'm going to reiterate my arguments for the final time in hopes that someone somewhere will understand. If some are better than others, then there is a hierarchy. If there is a hierarchy, then someone has to be at the top. Okay. To figure out who is at the top, all we have to do is come up with a consensus about the ideal map maker, and compare everyone to that ideal. Then you can rank order people/maps by comparison. "yA bUt eVeRyOnE VaLuEs diFFeReNt tHiNgs" Yeah how about no. That's a bullshit cop-out excuse for not thinking. I've already gone over why we can interpret patterns and treat them as objective principles in my thread "An Objective Take on a Subjective Industry" in which I talk about the fact that psychologically speaking we are all way more alike than we are different, which means that we will all agree on what works and what doesn't more than we will disagree. I can give you some examples. Everyone wants a map that is fun for all levels of play. Everyone wants a map that evolves over time and offers varying strategies. Everyone wants to be immersed in a beautiful play-space with meaning in every square inch of the geometry. Everyone wants to go on a journey and constantly feel like they are improving (that's the zone of proximal development in psychology). Everyone wants variety. Everyone wants predictability. Pretty much everyone wants these things and more, whether or not they realize it, and these are all patterns that can be learned. I hate to tell people what they think, but psychology tells us that our subconscious is way, way more influential than our conscious. I don't care what bullshit objection you have to this list, the good map makers will continue to learn and implement these patterns and they will continue to work. And the best map maker will have learned and creatively implemented these patterns more than anyone else. Done.
Holy **** I know something about something Edit: It would be more proper to say that I agree on a mostly set number of values accepted by a majority on a given subject
The map I'm making is like a mix between catwalk, room based, and tower fighting. I mean I honestly have no idea what I just made but it's been fun to throw prefabs together and add paths that make sense. It's easier for me to design this way compared to sketching, but making prefabs is a chore because the groups always explode and the menu always lags when you rename it. I figured out what I dislike the most about Forge though; it's not the lighting, it's the ****ing fog. Distance fog doesn't work on Glacier Nighttime, Tidal Clear, Tidal Meteor Shower, or Barrens Sunrise. Those have pretty good lighting configurations, but without being able to wash out shadows or hide the ugly skybox with fog, I can't really use them. Anyway, if I figure out the lighting, I am hoping to share this map. It's pointless for me to entertain this best forger discussion without anything solid to share for myself. This map is at least so bizarre that I want to actually finish it and see if it's completely broken or not. edit: I think I made Damnation?