ELDEWRITO POLICY CHANGES

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by ForgeHub, May 2, 2018.

By ForgeHub on May 2, 2018 at 2:24 PM
  1. ForgeHub

    ForgeHub The heart of the Forge community
    Administrator Senior Member

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    As many of you may already be aware, ForgeHub will no longer be supporting content of any kind from the Eldewrito 0.6 mod for Halo Online. This was a decision not made lightly on the part of our team. From the first whispers of conflict, we have closely monitored and observed the situation to ensure that we uphold all the proper rules, regulations and guidelines put forth from Microsoft. Like stated before, we want to ensure we provide a safe, engaging and diverse platform that operates well within the laws set out. We stuck it out through the first wave on DCMA's that hit streaming outlets, removing our nearly three hour livestream of Forge and took the proper steps to ensure content posted on the site was not at immediate risk as well.

    Many people have been asking a similar question. What changed? When Microsoft first requested the Eldewrito team halt development and began removing download links for Halo Online, we feared that content created within the mod might come under fire too. Our team worked feverishly to research and evaluate all our options. Our primary goal was to preserve our new growing community and to continue to provide a seasoned platform for those creators to share, interact and play. We eventually gained knowledge that ForgeHub's support of Eldewrito content, and Halo Online by extension, represented a legal conflict of interest. A large one. One that would fully prevent any future partnerships between ForgeHub and 343 Industries, dissolve all current ones and that would even affect some of our members on an individual level. This is a matter of law, not opinion. These same consequences apply to those who support Eldewrito/Halo Online in any way, whether it be through videos, streams, services, etc. While the current situation is stable, there is a possibility that Microsoft could escalate their efforts further which would only increase the risks involved. Several other Halo community members, aware of these risks, have too started taking steps to avoid such risks.

    Our team established early on that if any legal implications were to come into play regarding our involvement with ElDewrito we would act in accordance with the law and with the best interest of ForgeHub's future and longevity in mind.

    Our partnerships with 343 Industries have been invaluable to the Forge community. Entire playlists and gametypes have been the result of these joint efforts. Big Team Battle, Extermination, 2v2 Throwdown, Infection and many more. The relationship that we have built with 343 has allowed forgers the chance to enhance the experiences of not only fellow forgers but the Halo community as a whole. This is a combined effort that we hope to only grow and expand throughout the years. We want to ensure members of our community, the Forge community, continue to have the ability to build great things and to potentially share those great things with all Halo fans.

    This same unique relationship has allowed for more community content than ever before to make it's way onto the public stage and has directly fueled the development of our community.

    So with with heavy hearts in tow, our team decided to no longer support content from Eldewrito on our site. In the end, we had to act with the best interest of our community's future in mind. To that same tone, we hate to feel as though we are isolating a portion of our community. Throughout this journey our primary focus has been you. The forgers. It was not a choice made lightly.

    So what will happen to all the content shared on the site so far?

    From this point onward, all content of any kind from Eldewrito is prohibited on the site. We will be taking steps to remove options that allowed for the sharing of the content. As for the stuff already here, it's not being wiped off the face of the Earth. We value creative content beyond all else here and work extremely hard to preserve creations of all kinds. That being said, our team will be working to create a compiled list of the Eldewrito content shared up until this point. Once compiled, we will pass this list off to the Eldewrito team, at which time we will fully severe all ties with the project. The content will then be removed from our site.

    It's important to understand that this wasn't a deliberate "attack" on ForgeHub by either 343 or Microsoft in any way. This decision was made by the ForgeHub team after much deliberation topped off with new found legal guidelines. As stated by countless facets of the community, do not lash out at people only acting within the confines of the law.

    Looking forward, we embrace the idea of more Forge on PC. With what we saw in such a short time in Eldewrito boasts extremely well for the future of the creative tool we all know and love.


    Keep on forgin'

    -ForgeHub Team​
     
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Comments

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by ForgeHub, May 2, 2018.

    1. ACTIVATE HALO
      ACTIVATE HALO
      Better safe that sorry I suppose.
      ZombieDyer likes this.
    2. ACTIVATE HALO
      ACTIVATE HALO
      Indeed, it baffles me.
      ZombieDyer likes this.
    3. purely fat
      purely fat
      Can you explain the legal implications you are worried about? Nobody has really explained this.
      CertifiedChamp likes this.
    4. Mags
      Mags
      They would have been DMCA'd the site would've been taking down and who ever runs/pays for the site would have actual charges by the courts put on them. Probably
    5. purely fat
      purely fat
      Yeah but how would that apply to the site itself? Also I want the staffs answer because they have been very careful about being unclear with that.
    6. Mags
      Mags
      You should read what DMCA law is and that will answer every question you could possibly ask but mostly a conflict of interest which might lead to some people losing their jobs at 343 possibly.
      Last edited: May 3, 2018
    7. purely fat
      purely fat
      I did and it didn't clear it up. I am not an expert on law, so me reading about it only goes so fa. Also, as I said I want the staff to answer it. It isn't that I think they did the wrong thing but I want more clarification into what specifically they are worried about and what that is based off of. They do this and I will be satisfied. I am simply unsatisfied with what they said and this is coming from someone who doesn't even play el dewrito. fwiw
      CertifiedChamp likes this.
    8. ExTerrestr1al
      ExTerrestr1al
      @purely fat it sounds like a big part of it, based on my reading of it, is that they did not want to jeopardize voluntary collaborations between 343i and ForgeHub, as well as potential risk associated with legal stuff. 343i would not need a legal basis for ceasing a free-association relationship with this site. One does not need cause to stop a project or stop talking to someone they no longer are "friends" with, so to speak.

      Additionally, it seems as they they are protecting themselvese from a very nebulous, ambiguous situation, where, no one is really certain what the ramifications may be.

      They are certainly p;laying it safe, which I understand may rub people the wrong way, but I don't know that I wouldn't have made the same call if I were them... my .02
      Ascend Hyperion, a Chunk and Mags like this.
    9. Mags
      Mags
      Well it was because conflict of interest they already stated that. Now forgehub and 343i are too different entities and I'm just spit balling here, but let's say a 343i employee paid to keep the site up and running and there are a few forgehub members that have gotten jobs at 343i so this definitely a possibility, now hosting ED on this site is illegal because it still has code in it that's used in Halo today and that's owned by M$, but these are all just theories
    10. ExTerrestr1al
      ExTerrestr1al
      the last part is incorrect, but your overall point is valid. There is no part of a microsoft asset contained in the forge file that is the map posted on this site (only linked to, not actually hosted here). However, the conflict it creates between the two entities, appears to be the main issue here.
      Mags likes this.
    11. Mags
      Mags
      @ExTerrestr1al
      As for the last part it was reported by Kotaku that ED still contained code in the background whatever it was that is still used in Halo games today. Now they could definitely wrong but that's who I got the information from, yes they were only linked but there were plans to host in the future
    12. purely fat
      purely fat
      i appreciate you giving me answers but this has more to do with me critiquing the staffs announcement on the matter more than anything. I feel it would have been better to not state the interests they have but rather explore the legal trouble they are worried about. Like I said the last couple times. Rather than you giving me the probability of the issue I want the staff to. If they did this properly they would not be getting called cowards at all.
    13. a Chunk
      a Chunk
      I don't have any insight into the discussions staff has had regarding this, so I obviously can't say for sure what drove this decision.

      However, the obvious legal impact on the site would be an indirect one... I'd assume that 343 may not be able to legally support a site that hosts eldewrito content. A direct relationship would need to be severed in that case. 343 themselves may not even be clear on this yet? Seems logical to me that this possibility and uncertainty could have been communicated from 343 to forgehub?

      All I really know is that it's easy to question decisions when you don't have to take responsibility for them. I totally understand why this step has been taken, and think it's probably a wise decision, despite the fact that it ****ing sucks.
      WAR and ExTerrestr1al like this.
    14. purely fat
      purely fat
      I just think it would be a good thing to be more clear about. I mean I probably would not have questioned it if I had not read this announcement. My point is they should have been more clear with what they are worried about from a legal standpoint because to me that justifies the decision more than a relationship with 343, especially if el dewrito gets past this snag. The game could potentially produce way more traffic than any 343 release based on their track record. I don't see an issue with having more transparency on this matter.
    15. Erydhil
      Erydhil
      It was the only issue you had. With all the respect that I have for the fans developing Eldewrito it remains illegal regarding the policy of 343... It would be ridiculous for you to strike your relations with 343 for something like that. It is a complicated position you took.
      Last edited: May 5, 2018
    16. Ascend Hyperion
      Ascend Hyperion
      So there were several questions brought up, each kinda hovering around the same topic. I think it'll be most effective to answer @purely fat 's question about what legal crossroads we faced.

      So, as things currently stand, 343i could not partner with any entity or individual who openly supports ED (thus Halo Online by extension) Like I said, conflict of interest. I already highlighted ForgeHub's growing critical role in the health of the Forge community and the promotion of it's members and their work. I understand some people may not fully appreciate what our combined efforts have produced over H5's life span and that's fine. The news about the conflict of interest is actually fairly new and out of the blue for both parties.

      There is a potential for MS is increase their efforts involving ED which could lead to larger implications for us had we continued supporting the site. These consequences are vague mainly because those rest in the hands of a legal team at MS and nobody anyone here could get a hold of. We went pretty high up the ladder to get as much as we could from the inside. We feared that, while in a neutral zone right now, creative content would too be subject to IP claims in some way shape or form and/or that affiliation with ED would render consequences by association.

      Let me stress this again, we are not lawyers and we're not here to gamble

      We are not the first among the community to stop outwardly supporting the mod either. Other entities and individuals know this as well.

      Someone asked for direct quotes and I will not be providing those. These were private conversations and that privacy is to be respected.
    17. purely fat
      purely fat
      Thank you

      Also, temporary halt of production has me believe that Microsoft is looking to profit off of it. Judging by statements I have read.
      I understand not wanting to get into a legal battle with Microsoft. I feel that you guys needed to be more clear on the matter though and I appreciate it.
      CertifiedChamp and ExTerrestr1al like this.
    18. Soldat Du Christ
      Soldat Du Christ
      This
    19. eelikay
      eelikay
      I've been a member of ForgeHub since 2009 and I just want the staff to know that the only thing that brought me back was the Halo Online map support. Now that you are taking it away I want you to know you are going to lose me again until something changes because the archive of Halo 3 and Halo Reach maps can no longer be downloaded and I'm not active in any other halo games.
      Xandrith likes this.
    20. Nitro
      Nitro
      Hey @eelikay I haven't been here as long as you, but long enough I suppose (2010). In regards to you coming back to ForgeHub is great, but totally understandable for your reasons as some prefer some games over others. H3 is something in my opinion a legend of a game, it's what drove a lot success with the forge community in the first place and we all wouldn't be here talking about forge if the ingame editor never came to life. So we all sort of owe it H3 for sparking that fire.

      As for the ability to download maps from older games, unless I am wrong (please forgive me and someone correct me with the correct info) Halo 3/Reach maps can't be downloaded any longer (Bungie and 343). I have a sneaky suspicion that I am incorrect and for that I am sorry for saying the wrong info. I think something went out a few months ago regarding MCC and the file share there, so that's why I thinking that I am wrong with my current info and hope someone can correct/inform me. So maybe they can help you find what you're looking for.

      Hope this helps and sparks an answer from the group.

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