What Are You Working On?

Discussion in 'Halo and Forge Discussion' started by ForgeHub, Jul 12, 2013.

  1. a Chunk

    a Chunk Blockout Artist
    Forge Critic Wiki Contributor Senior Member

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    If you're talking about 2 or 3 primary levels, that can be perfectly okay. But, I'd definitely recommend having numerous minor height variations mixed in amongst those primary levels. The main reason for this, assuming you're trying to design competitive maps, is that there's little skill required to maintain your reticle at the desired height if you're involved in a battle with someone at exactly the same elevation. When a player doesn't need to adjust their aimer vertically at all, the fun and the challenge are reduced significantly.

    Adding minor height variation just keeps things interesting for players, and allows players with more aiming skill to separate themselves from players with lesser skill (this is a pretty minor differentiator when it comes to 'skill', but certainly not something that should be disregarded).

    Another way to think about it is to compare these Rubix Cube's:
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    Think about the skill required to complete the first, compared to the skill required to complete the last. When designing maps for competitive play, you need to allow players ample opportunity to set themselves apart from others skill-wise.

    There also comes a point at which a map can become too complex though, and then we start going the other way and reducing the opportunity to show skill. It's all a balancing act.

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  2. MultiLockOn

    MultiLockOn Ancient
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    There's really no limit of answers I could give to that. Besides the obvious answer of "height advantage" verticality, every in its most neutered form, can provide subtleties like LoS breakage, differences of nade bounces, inventive to move, map progression... Honestly I'm at a loss to even make a list of benefits in fear it won't end. Verticality is by far a level designers most powerful tool in his arsenal and frankly it's all but ignored in AAA game development. I made a design series if you haven't seen them, episode 2 is about verticality but you might benefit from watching all 4 if you're new to design.




    I think you'll find as time goes you'll begin to crave using verticality in its more exaggerated forms, and maps that lack it will begin to bore you. Good design, in my opinion, isn't possible without it.
     
  3. icyhotspartin

    icyhotspartin Legendary

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    In H5 especially it becomes important - your jump height is increased by clamber, which makes it necessary to raise platforms higher than normal if you don't want everyone to be able to approach things from every side (which increases verticality by a good 25% in an already verticality-heavy game). At the same time you have to balance for the increased jump distance that you can accomplish with Spartan abilities (which makes those vertical places easier to jump to and from without having to give up the positional advantage by going back down to the lower ground, meaning you've gotta space everything out more, or cut it off - which leads to spamming of Spartan charge/camping).

    So you end up with either really 'blown out' maps that turn into killing fields that you have to sprint across, giving up your ability to fight, or these stupid-ass buildings with lots of corners that end up turning into sprint-charge-doublebeatdown spammers. The only ways to really counteract this, in my experience, is to make maps with either absurd amounts of verticality, or incredibly long sight lines - which then get abused because the pistol is so good the only thing worth using.

    It's hard, but always have some kind of vertical change - incremental is good.
     
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  4. I MetaBreaker I

    I MetaBreaker I Spartan III

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    Great advice from everyone. I'll keep it in mind!
     
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  5. Foge

    Foge Staff
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    Just about finished up this blockout today. 4v4 sym cuz nobody makes 4v4 syms.

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  6. Box Knows

    Box Knows Mythic
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    O ya bet?

    Battle of the donuts begins
     
  7. Foge

    Foge Staff
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    And so on the day of April 22nd 2018, The ultimate donut battle began.
     
  8. S0UL FLAME

    S0UL FLAME Mythic
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    2 base 2 tower plz
     
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  9. Box Knows

    Box Knows Mythic
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    Nope 1 base 1 tower
     
  10. Xandrith

    Xandrith Promethean
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    @I MetaBreaker I

    They're all wrong, if you want to know how to make something like this, hit me up

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    #26810 Xandrith, Apr 22, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
  11. Xandrith

    Xandrith Promethean
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    You don't have to over-scale and you don't need long lines of sight, and you especially don't need claustrophobic buildings. You just need to convolute your pathing while making sure that your counters are still quickly achievable. It is indeed a balancing act, but there's no reason to ever have a huge divide or goldleaf styled rooms.
     
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  12. xzamplez

    xzamplez Ancient
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    @I MetaBreaker I Verticality, like any common practice in level design, has its purpose. Once you understand its purpose in both its minor and major forms, you can design maps without the necessary need to have platforms looking down over eachother or minor z-axis variations on a floor.

    Your sketches seem to be fine, in terms of verticality. You have to learn to filter out feedback that you dont think will help you get the map to where you want it to be.
     
    #26812 xzamplez, Apr 22, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
  13. MultiLockOn

    MultiLockOn Ancient
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  14. I MetaBreaker I

    I MetaBreaker I Spartan III

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    y would i ever make something invisible
     
  15. I MetaBreaker I

    I MetaBreaker I Spartan III

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    you sadistic fiend, you
     
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  16. Xandrith

    Xandrith Promethean
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    I just remembered the man-cannons on sweaty spaceships ahahahahaha

    everything I make is a joke
     
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  17. ExTerrestr1al

    ExTerrestr1al Promethean
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    icyhotspartin likes this.
  18. Daeklaw

    Daeklaw Spartan III

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    @MultiLockOn

    Maps like Damnation really did a great job in making use of vertical gameplay. Not to forget the catwalks combined with the fall damage. I literally died 9 out of 10 times trying to get the height advantage with grenade jumps.
    Ahh, good old times.
     
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  19. Goat

    Goat Rock Paper Scissors Scrap
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    i bought xbox live which means i'm going to finish one of my maps. the number of likes on this post will determine how many days i spend on it.

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  20. Zombievillan

    Zombievillan Ancient
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    Upon reading this I lol’d because you had only 1 like.

    I feel for those who won’t feel that same feeling once the followers flood your post with likes...
     
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