What Are You Working On?

Discussion in 'Halo and Forge Discussion' started by ForgeHub, Jul 12, 2013.

  1. Preacher001

    Preacher001 Forerunner
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    I've been working on -killing some Covenant in ODST. I gotta say, even though Reach and ODST are my two least favorite games in the Bungie Halo library I can't help but love fighting the Covenant. I don't care that I'm just fighting the same guys over and over, because I always find them fun to kill. This is something I don't feel fighting any of the new enemies.

    I hope 343 realizes that Halo's story played a lesser role in making the original trilogy fun. Not to say it didn't help but it was fairly spartan ;). It stuck to the most basic of story elements and let the gameplay do the talking. The troops they had were fun to run with because of the stupid **** they said and did. I even reloaded certain areas when one of them died just so I could keep listening to their occasional banter. It was a battleground that felt a bit like playing with friends even if you played by yourself.

    In Halo 6 we need more Buck playing the Han Solo-esque cool, tough, accident prone role, we need more Aussie squad mates that are all bravado until the moment they are not (an over zealous Scot or two could be fun as well), more covey to fight, more covey to listen to, and an amazing place to battle.

    Every time I go back to the campaign in Halo 1,2,3, I always find myself saying, "I love this game," and that's what I wish for the future of Halo.

    Okay I said my piece, you can now return to What You're Working On.
     
  2. no god anywhere

    no god anywhere Forerunner
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    "Overall, I don't think there's a single map submitted to this contest that I would actually load up and play for fun in their current iterations."


    SAME.


    I want a 1v1 map that makes you feel as though you can succeed because the map allows your skill to be the dominant factor wherever you are, even off any spawn. None of these maps offer gameplay that allows this.

    Every spawn location needs to have a legitimate way to succeed. You shouldn't constantly be thrown into the same spawn because players only feel comfortable in one location. You shouldn't ever have to feel that you have to rush a pickup just to get there first, instead you should expect a fight every time and not dare grab it until you've killed them or made them retreat. You shouldn't have to completely stop gameplay from sound whoring because levels are stacked on top of one another. There's just so many factors but I'm on my phone so I'll stop there.

    The problem is every map submitted seems to get at least two of these wrong right off the bat. I haven't even indepth tested these maps like multi yet.

    It's probably a little arrogant but even though trinket does suffer from some little issues, it's still the most rounded experience in my opinion (OFC) and I'll continue to 1v1 on it repeatedly after this competition ends. I actually expected many maps to raise the bar but none have.

    I recall people saying 1v1 is easy to design for. Yeah well let's hear that now...
     
    #20222 no god anywhere, Oct 31, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
  3. Xandrith

    Xandrith Promethean
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    Balance in map design still is the the easy part, and I'll stand by that. You can also get away with a lot more creatively speaking with only 1 other player to worry about and I think that much is self explanatory.

    Things like 90 degree corners all over the place, sound whoring, and spawn traps are an obstacle in every game-type. However, these problems are largely naturally remedied with the addition of even just 1 more player on each team, which is why most designers aren't even thinking about things like this when designing maps for 2v2-4v4. It's a luxury in larger player counts, but that doesn't mean 1v1's are suddenly hard to design for. As long as you can understand balance at a fundamental level within the context of spartan abilities, you should be able to catch these problems just by walking around a map if not in a few playtests. The thing about that is... well I just don't think people were testing with a critical eye. Nobody wants to play like a huge ***** (except for maybe multi), but you need to try if you don't want your map to break when players really want to win. We know that now.
     
  4. MULLERTJE

    MULLERTJE ROGUE
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    I at least expected out of the 90+ maps 7 or so great ones. Too bad.

    But I have a question and that isn't for me at all, let that be clear. If you judges and other good players can stress test a map better and more thoroughly than most people, how will they ever find all these flaws you guys pick up? I mean maybe this community can have fun on maybe 15 maps or so and think they're good...?
     
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  5. Xandrith

    Xandrith Promethean
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    That's the thing... you don't have to be good to find these things out. You just have to be looking for them. You have to actively try to break your map. I can and HAVE outgunned multi out of a spawn trap because I usually have a better shot, but we both recognize the problem. I often hear him say things like "If I weren't bad then you would've been punished for that" or "you should be screwed down there but you have a way better shot" and so on.

    This may sound harsh, but if you can't find a problem in testing that others can, it's because you don't understand level design as well as they do. However, don't think I'm trying to make the claim that a lack of understanding is the problem with these maps. I think the largest culprit is the lack of stress testing, although I can't be sure. It's probably a mixture.

    The best forgers could never compete at a tournament level in Halo, yet they can make maps that hold up at a high level. Why is this? It's because execution and understanding are totally different things. We often see the flip side of this when the best players in the world say really stupid things like that halo 4 is the best Halo ever made. You don't have to be good to understand the game and its mechanics, and you don't have to understand the game at a deep level to be good.

     
    #20225 Xandrith, Oct 31, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
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  6. xzamplez

    xzamplez Ancient
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    I have a lot of things to say to you guys, but I don’t know how to without starting a flame war.
     
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  7. SaltyKoala

    SaltyKoala Ancient
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    In gonna fix the last few major issues I have with my 1v1 map Swag Crow.

    @Xandrith and @MultiLockOn , would you two be able to stress test the fck out of it for me?

    Would love to hear the positive and negative feedback for it.
     
  8. Dunco

    Dunco Troll Whisperer
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    Since H5 came out I think I've played a total of maybe 4 matches total on all my maps I've made. I might just be the most reclusive introvert in the world.
     
  9. purely fat

    purely fat The Fattest Forger
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    Someone doesn't know about the grass in maps popping in and out on PC if the settings are turned down.
     
  10. MultiLockOn

    MultiLockOn Ancient
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    Of course man.

    Well, you're free to say it here or message me. I don't mind either way.
     
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  11. purely fat

    purely fat The Fattest Forger
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    @qrrby didn't know I was approved. I'll get on that. Just send me some logo's you would like featured on it.

    Also, can we stop using that promotional piece as an argument against pro players. These ****ing guys were literally paid by 343 to go and promote the game at E3. It does not validate the point you are making at all. The only way it does is if people were not there to see it and then you are being dishonest.
     
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  12. Box Knows

    Box Knows Mythic
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  13. purely fat

    purely fat The Fattest Forger
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    Me to. I understand why he did what he did though.
     
  14. Soldat Du Christ

    Soldat Du Christ Legendary
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    I like hoogieboogie, i'll probably bookmark that one for fun
     
  15. Yeti For Hire

    Yeti For Hire Legendary
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    @CertifiedChamp
     
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  16. qrrby

    qrrby Waggly piece of flesh
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  17. purely fat

    purely fat The Fattest Forger
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    What color shirt?
     
  18. Soldat Du Christ

    Soldat Du Christ Legendary
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    Can someone get on and help me test pelase
     
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  19. a Chunk

    a Chunk Blockout Artist
    Forge Critic Wiki Contributor Senior Member

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    You know...I've been ragging on the quality of maps in H5 since the beginning. I've also mentioned multiple times that you don't understand how many bad maps are made, and just how bad they are, until you try judging a contest.

    It bothers me that judges are coming out and saying all the maps suck while they're in the process of judging them for a contest though. It's not even a matter of whether or not it's true, because I have no doubt that it is. It's just totally counter-productive. It cheapens the results, and it's a cop-out.

    When you agree to judge a contest, you accept responsibility for the results of the contest, even if you don't personally approve of the quality of the maps. Your job as a judge is not to give the maps a seal of approval, it's to determine which of the submitted maps is 'best' according the whatever criteria you're using. Anyone who's not willing to do that shouldn't be a judge.

    If I was part of the staff, this would honestly discourage me from having community members be in charge of judging contests in the future, which is sad because there are plenty of community members that are capable of doing it well (including all of the judges of this contest). I don't know...maybe I'm overreacting, but this really rubs me the wrong way.

    And if it wasn't obvious enough, this is directed at @MultiLockOn and @no god anywhere
    I like you guys. I don't like you seemingly trying to deny responsibility for the results of the contest you agreed to judge.
     
  20. purely fat

    purely fat The Fattest Forger
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    As someone who has also judged a contest. I agree 100%.
     
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