For the particular case of the BPR I couldn't disagree more, tho I do see the angle of your mentality. The absurd amount of ammo combined with the weapons base traits are exactly what make it an annoying and unfair weapon. Lower that ammo to a very limited state, and a true skill curve will emerge. If we lower the weapon to 1 kill/3 shield strips per pickup it easily finds it's place in a 1v1. Players with higher skill will be able to squeeze those 3 shield strips out of it, while less skilled players may only get 1 out of it. This means players get punished heavily for spray and pray and wasting the weapons powerful potential. Those that focus on only using the ammo when the situation is correct and the shots will land, will be rewarded. BPR used in this low ammo format used on the proper maps really shouldn't be an issue for 1v1. My two cents.
Wayulp this is basically the dilemma I was in earlier... compared to other soft routes like man-cannons and trick jumps, teles are VERY direct as you literally go straight from one place to another, but they aren't simply walking into the new area like you would through a door or something so in that sense they're softer. They're "underdosing viagra" routes I guess
So @PharmaGangsta1 it really depends on your definition of hard and soft routes. The important thing is to pay attention to see if its breaking your spawns or allowing something unfair in the gameplay
I look at weapons differently. What matters to me is how the player will use the weapon versus your ability to counter it. A Lightrifle on a map with a lot of long open sightlines is going to be a problem because you don't have a good ability to counter it and the player is going to keep you from approaching. I feel like that would devalue the map and only be interesting for the person with the Lightrifle, so then the map will revolve around picking it up, or picking something else up to counter it. Maybe that is fun for other people, but it's not interesting to me, because then you're playing rock-paper-scissors with OP weapons vs whichever spawn is the worst more than the geometry. But that's just how I play. I would rather move to high ground to counter somebody with Rockets than gamble on an Overshield I have to run across the map to go pick up; chances are, they are waiting for me to pick OS up. Getting geometrical advantages over the other player is more compelling gameplay than picking up a Rock while they have Scissors. Sure you can lower the ammo and force them to pace their shots to get a kill before wasting it, but that's the same thing as putting a Halo CE pistol with only the 12 bullets on your map. You can get 4 kills if you're a good player, but what's the ****ing point? You may as well put an actual power weapon on the map. A pickup to me is supposed to change your playstyle, not guarantee that you get a kill. Mid tier weapons are obviously stronger in 1v1 than higher player counts, and perhaps you can get away with unorthodox ammo configs on 1v1 maps. But the bottom line is that most of these weapons are basically guaranteed kills, so messing with the ammo to that extent just pisses me off. Like "Hey this Needler has 8 bullets, so if you miss one you wont get the supercombine! It's balanced!" Making the BPR a "3 if you're good, 2 if you're okay, maybe 1 if you suck" weapon that spawns every 2 minutes comes across as tacky and not fun to me. You don't want the person 3 bursting and pulling out a magnum to headshot? Then just put a ****ing Assault Rifle on the map. We wouldn't have to do this weird **** if everything wasn't so goddamn easy to use in this game.
Maybe you don't see the point because you're not looking close enough. Or maybe I'm just trying to bait you into arguing about whether or not there's any point in arguing. Hmm.... Damnit! This is exactly what I was thinking camo should be. You're not supposed to tell people because now someone will probably steal our idea and win the 1v1 contest with it.
Doesn't work with Spartan Abilities because then you just Sprint everywhere. Unless you make staying still and sprinting both decloak you, which comes across as a sloppy, unintuitive bandaid to me. "I can't stay still, but I can't move fast, so I can only walk..." Assuming this is discussion for Halo 5/Halo 6 since SA's aren't going ****ing anywhere.
Okay first of all. Don't compare me to the idiotic handling of the 2v2 contest. Since you brought it up I'll discuss my reasoning here, or even in the 1v1 discussion thread if you guys would prefer. Long reasoning short; I don't think someone's stupid weapon placement is integral to level design, or rather learning level design. It's hardly a skill and it's not one worth admiring. I wouldn't ever want to DQ a map because it had 12 storm riles on it because that feels wrong. I'll just delete the weapons and play it with nothing on the map, because at that point it's not about the map geometry and design, it's just fruity bullshit on top that deteriorates the entire experience (read: every weapon in the Halo 5 sandbox). You would have to be a complete robot to look at a map with one really bad repeating spawn (that is otherwise a masterpiece) and say "well yeah this is the greatest thing ever but that spawn sucks man too bad." To me, that is dumb. Artificial. Inauthentic judging. I'm here to see great designs - if someone happens to drop a shotgun on their map, well.. too bad. **** you. That weapon is dumb I'm deleting it. But I would have to be either A: a complete asshole, or B: not care about level design itself to say "Well this is a contest so this map is disqualified." If I were a car reviewer and had Subaru send me their newest STI hatchback and Ford send me their newest RS hatchback for comparison and prizing and for someone reason the Subaru had a bad battery and the car wouldn't start - I wouldn't say "Well this car is clearly worse." Yes, they should have sent a working car, that would still be stupid of them. But that doesn't discredit the quite literal hundreds of millions of dollars in R&D that went into fine tuning the suspension, the transmission, the gear ratios, the drive sensors, the performance, economics, efficiency of the vehicle. Put a new battery in and move on. It's a better vehicle, it just happened to have a very fixable mistake. Same goes for the senior project in my aerospace engineering major. We had to build a rocket that actually be remotely controlled in air. If you ****ed up with the mixture of your fluids and combustion? That sucks, but the professor still wants to see if the damn thing would fly. Go borrow some gasoline, fix it, and fly the damn thing. Regardless, I'm not a robot. The other judges aren't robots (I hope, can't be sure about Soldat). Everything is going to be kept in mind. The weapons and spawns are there to enhance your experience, if you nail it when you submit the map congrats. It'll make our time better. If you **** up? We'll delete them and move on, obviously I won't sit there and find a perfect weapon set and fix every spawning cubby. But if it can be done in a minute, why not. Legion only had 1 change from the very first time it was finished; I had a lightrifle on the bottom of the map to shoot the top. Given grabbed it, ran to the top and raped everyone below (who could've seen that coming shocker). It was awful, something like 25 - 4. I deleted the LR and the map has been effectively flawless ever since. Those are the kinds of partial judging situations I'm trying to avoid - where there is clearly a working map held back by some irrelevant stupid ****. If everyone here is so unanimously against ANY sort of tampering of the maps I can abide by that and go by nothing but the completely raw, provided experience and judge off of it. But I have a feeling that's not really what anyone here really wants. There could be some really tremendous unique maps with a lot of character but at that point if I'm getting any sort even marginally weird spawning or weapon abuse, it will lose to Octagon Hangar 3.0 because that's the more polished experience. And we'll end up with a huge lump of generic sacks of **** that were "fine tuned" instead of something that actually had an ounce of passion put into the design. Again, it's on everyone else here I can start a poll if need be. But I have a feeling that playing nothing but the untouched experience is really not what you guys are going to want when it comes to scoring. Also Orxygens was stupid because the map was complete dog ****. Also it was the ONLY map that was tinkered with, that wasn't a treatment given to everyone. That's why it was bullshit, the weapon set was laughable but that was the least of my concerns. Which is also why I've told the other judges I don't think anyone should be giving any feedback to anything. _______________________ Also camo's purpose is to make you invisible so you can move and break setups and ****. Youcouldn't do anything with old camo when you had to crouch everywhere while everyone sprinted. There's nothing wrong with moving base speed still cloaked. EDIT: Also Goat whatever your issues are please handle it somewhere other than the forums please.
If the entire panel agrees to make amendments to the maps and they are transparent about those amendments, and it is explicity stated in the contest rules, then that's fine. It has nothing to do with comparing you to the previous panel or the map to anything else, and everything to do with the principle of changing the way some maps were intended to be played when they were submitted to the contest. What issues?
multi ninjad me, havent read it yet... If the simple geometry of a map can beat a map that is at its best with its weapons balanced then i think that says enough about both. A great map shouldn't lose the competition simply because of subjectivity of the ****ed up sandbox for 1v1. For reference were over a month into this and the plasma rifle alone is still being debated. We have mentioned this weeks ago and its being mentioned again now. You all have the same opportunity for it to occur and you might just unexpectedly need the grace yourself. If you need a reason or someone to blame for your map losing and this is it then go right ahead... but consider how shallow it would be. If its what it takes to end up with the best results for the community then ill proceed comfortably. That is my stance. You guys are so uptight talking about keeping secrets to yourself, not helping others test their maps, not pointing out flaws with certain weapons, etc. Smoke some weed or shoot up some heroine. Geez.
Maybe people should have the ability to opt in for allowing those kinds of changes by the judges. I don't think it's possible to say that some weapon sets are objectively bad, and I'm sure people put the specific weapons sets on their map that they do because that set provides the experience the author is going for (even if you personally don't like it). If some guy puts 12 storm rifles on his map, I would assume there is a reason for it. Doesn't mean I have to like it. But a judge might call it objectively bad, simply because he or she missed the point. I think the judge deleting the weapon set is very similar to that judge saying "I don't like the experience this map provides, so I'm going to change it to one I enjoy more." And if they don't like the weapon set because they don't understand what the map is going for, it's essentially, "I don't understand what this map is supposed to be about, so I'm going to change it to be about something else." I would personally prefer that the judges be simply judges. --- Further, I don't believe that your Subaru example applies here, because the author knows exactly what he is shipping. There is no random chance that the map will be broken. The weapon sets are planned, deliberate, and completely non-random.
I have never disagreed with this. I think maps should function without anything on them unless they are designed around those pickups, like Optic Prison. I wont speak for Seth, but my concern is simply the act of changing somebody's submission, and not others. It opens the judging up to bias. --- Double Post Merged, Sep 12, 2017 --- I agree with this. Except **** you if you put a Railgun on your map.
If people knew they were submitting a broken map they wouldn't submit it, what are you even saying. Forgers don't always find every spawn issue. If I can change the spawning priority of a single spawn point and "fix" the map, I will.
I understand your point spranklz and it's why I don't have as hard of a stance as multi does. Eg deleting a shotgun immediately. I will absolutely try my best to play your maps as intended first.
I'll make a video with the top 10-20ish maps after the contest where I'll walk through them point out positives negatives any possible changes we considered/made why it placed why it did where it did How does that sound for everyone.