Inconsistency and frustration seem to be a common theme when I think of an H3 BR. Especially in 4s. Speedy single shot projectile is where it's at, which is why I rep the CE Pistol and Reach ZB DMR.
This starter weapon **** measuring kinda leads into a comment i wanted to make earlier after i finished reading multi and xzamples discussion. Everything is subjective. Multi said "nonono dont say that" but really the only reason not to say it is for a graceful excuse to take turns telling each other about yourself in a glorified way that allows you to reaffirm to yourself that your own opinion is the more correct one. Its not a conversation stopper because its simply a core principal that youre already subconsciously working on top of. Yeah its fun to read though. Learning about other peoples ideas has opened my mind to new concepts but it hasnt for a second explained to me why, for some unfathomable reason, i dont enjoy any of multi's maps after paragraphs of insight. Although much of what he says makes sense to me. No stiffy feelings multi, i guess i just havent played them enough or cant see your vision. I hope you make a 1v1 one day so its easier for me to analyze considering i barely play with you all. Xzamples you make good points too.
1v1 encounters suck with BRs which in turn makes 2v2s suck. Only advantage of a BR 1v1 is that you have more time to turn and react, which also translates to more time to kill and more time to get 2v1'd. Since mashing buttons on the controller is stupid and nobody is going to bring button combos back, the only other way to have a fair sandbox across all player counts is to buff the movement and strafe speed.
It's a simple concept. The 3sk pistol is the superior 2v2 weapon. I believe 2v2 is best with a quick kill time which would allow one player to kill both players by himself provided he reacts, positions and dodges their shots. Assuming this chart is correct, the BRs in Halo 5 take around twice as long to kill compared to the CE pistol. Therefore, you can kill two players with the CE pistol in the time it would take you to kill one with the BR in Halo 5, which is why I'd say the CE pistol is preferred for 2v2. This doesn't translate as well to 4v4 though because there are more players with faster killing weapons, and consequently less time to react. Therefore the BR is preferred. In any given scenario, I would rather have the CE pistol than the BR because the BR doesn't let you win 2v1 scenarios unassisted without button combos, which means that BR combat relies on teamshooting. However, that goes both ways - you give everyone CE pistols and now everyone is teamshooting at insane speeds, which doesn't give you any time to react. Thus, since CE pistols suck in 4v4 and BRs suck in 2v2, we are at a crossroads. I don't believe teamshooting should be necessary because it takes power away from the player, which makes people then want stupid abilities like sprint and thrust to make up for how vulnerable they are on their own. I also don't believe button combos should return because they will always look ridiculous unless you own an elite controller Therefore, a 4sk pistol (0.8-1.0 second optimal TTK) at the CE pistol's rate of fire along with faster movement and strafe speed would translate best between 2v2 and 4v4. It gets the most out of individual play, reaction time, and still allows players to teamshoot without making it a necessity. I suppose it's also worth mentioning that a quick killing pistol balances every other weapon, vehicle and power up in the sandbox, and it doesn't need to be stated that we're talking about optimal kill times here. Average kill time has to be slower to avoid power creep, and it has to be projectile, otherwise long ranged combat has no depth and map design becomes limited. Of course, a case could be made that the starting weapon could be the BR again, provided it fills the same niche and TTK above. This would then relegate the Pistol to a sidearm role like it was in Halo 2, where you switch to it to quickly clean up a kill. The reverse of that would likely make the BR redundant because the Pistol would be filling its niche. The decision would ultimately be decided based on which one is aesthetically preferred, and whether the BR or sidearm role are necessary. Do we cut the BR completely and start with pistols, or do we start with BRs and make the pistol a sidearm? And how does that affect the Carbine and Light Rifle? Theoretically, if you cut the BR, the DMR can take its niche as a slower, longer zoomed weapon. Bottom line is that everything interacts with one another. When 343 says they're going to give you a hitscan weapon (ruining long ranged combat) at a 5 shot kill (ruining 1v2 combat) with a short range (ruining level design) and then make all of the other rifles simply better in CQB and range (ruining half of the pick ups), AND THEN give everyone defensive abilities (ruining the cadence of battle), it shows they really have no idea what the **** they're doing. If I were doing the sandbox, it'd look like this: AR is your easy to use clean up weapon. You pull it out when you have the drop on the player, when your pistol is empty, or when you're in extreme CQB and it's hard to aim Pistol is your 4sk all around projectile weapon with good range and a quick optimal kill time DMR is your longer ranged, slower rate of fire, heavy hitting anti sniper marksman weapon. Also projectile. Needle Rifle is your short ranged, spam all the things weapon (because super combine is cool and differentiates it from the DMR) **** the BR, **** the Carbine and **** the Light Rifle. They're all redundant. The rest of the sandbox depends on whether dual wielding is reintroduced or not. It's not necessary, but then you have no way to make the SMG unique beyond making it simply better than the AR, so that gets cut too.
The second you use the word subjective is the second I start tuning out everything you say. Also there's a difference between enjoying something and recognizing its quality. I can recognize chill out is the best map in CE. I also completely suck at playing it, it's my worst map by far. A single shot is preferable to a burst fire for the predictability and the skill gap. Too easy to spray over someone with a burst fire to clean them up, makes encounters really messy. I would think if you were a competitive player you would recognize this. Also 1v1s in Halo are retarded and I don't think I'll ever make a 1v1 map
Variety is a curse. The more you add to the sandbox, the less traits you can allocate to weapons, and the more Halo revolves around who has what and not how you use what you have. Someone tell me right now what the difference between the DMR and the Halo 5 magnum is? Absolutely nothing other than the DMR having more range and more aim assist than the Pistol. That is not good game design. That is not variety. That is one player picking up a weapon and immediately being better than everyone else. That's not how pick ups should be in Halo. If the DMR was slower than the pistol but had way more range, the difference speaks for itself. Now you have to play a certain way with the DMR to gain your advantage. But the Light Rifle literally does that already, so why are they both in the game? Why does Halo 5 have more weapons than every other Halo combined, and yet nothing I want to actually put on any of my maps?
Damage Boost is perfect OS and Camo depend on the map Speed Boost is pointless, pass Sentinel Beam with damage boost is good BR is too easy to use, pass DMR is way better than the pistol, pass SMG is a better AR, pass SAW is a better ****ing SMG and shouldn't be in Halo, HARD PASS Plasma Rifle is fine if you have an OS and few chokepoints Plasma Pistol has been OP since Halo 2, pass Shotgun hasn't been balanced since Halo 3, pass Grenade Launcher, Reach's most skillful weapon and a long awaited fan favorite, is OP thanks to 343. PASS Carbine is broken, pass Light Rifle is OP, pass Sniper Rifle is OP, pass Beam Rifle is OP, pass Railgun is OP, pass Fuel Rod is OP, pass Hydra was buffed and is now OP, pass Plasma Caster was buffed and is now OP, pass Binary Rifle is whatever Rockets are Rockets and thanks to the brilliant minds at 343, we have two versions Boltshot is cool I guess, but should have just been a Mauler Suppressor and Needler Energy Sword and Gravity Hammer with Sprint Storm Rifle
I've been playing with the Idea of a damage boost, speed boost, and scattershot on Kingsbane. I like the idea of the key guy getting scattershot + speedboost and mobbing through the map like he's hunting you the **** down Also I'm going to make a long ass post later
Have to call you out here. Seems like this thread should be renamed "How can we ***** about people not pushing design today?" and I see things like this that COMPLETELY contradict what I just read in the past 700 pages. To just say it's useless and move on is putting yourself in a box. Find a cool way to incorporate something like speed boost into your map similar to how Multi did on Arcanum with the key and Chunk did on Tron (both used these elements to open up new paths) - make it a dynamic. Don't look at it as something that makes you just run faster, look at it as something that can turn the map on it's back and cause the flow to do a complete 180. But yeah you nailed everything else **** the storm rifle
Let me know if this is worth trying to attempt, and if anyone has successfully accomplished this before. Day/Night cycle on a map: Ever been done before? I think i have a few tricks up my sleeve that might make this work... worth trying?
Putting a speed boost powerup on your map is pointless. You're giving one player the ability tk run away faster or abuse a CQB weapon and at that point you may as well put something OP on the map anyway. That doesn't contradict anything. If you throw 10 of them on there or bake it into geometry then sure.
some guy on reddit did this. Heres a link to the post he made. https://www.reddit.com/r/forge/comments/6hc0fl/i_created_an_hour_long_day_to_night_cycle_with/ Could probably be improved but im not entirely sure. Might be able to do something with the cube maps, but im not sure if those would update in the middle of a custom game.
You could have 100 speed boosts and it wouldn't matter Damage boost is also pretty weak, but it works. Multiple damage boosts help They need to just make a yellow powerup that combines both a damage buff and a speed buff, like haste in doom.
thanks. for some reason, I can't watch the video. Maybe I'll watch and see wha tcomes out of that and if it seems able to improve, perhaps I will.
Let's compare Halo to the world of mainstream sports. Hockey, Soccer, Football, Basketball, Baseball, Tennis, and Golf. Which sport is objectively the most fun, requires the most skill and is the most competive? There is no definitive answer to that question. Why? Beacuse each sport caters to a certain set of skills and a certian player base/fan base that places value on those skills that fit there tastes. Luckily for those fans the rules of their choosen sport, and the way they are played, has been fairly consistent since there inception. Even still, players and fans have LEFT these sport due to changes in the rules, rules that changed the games making them not appeal to there tastes. The problem with Halo is that it's been EXTREMELY inconsistent in it's rules and its base fundamentals. So much so, that's it's basically an entirely different sport with each entry. Could you imagine if any mainstream sport varied it's fundamentals and rules in the same manner Halo has? Players/fans would be leaving and coming at an alarming rate, and it would likely cause the sport itself to fail. See the parallel to Halo? Each game, from H1, H2, H3 HR and H4+H5 Have catered to and attracted a wide variety of player base. Each game places emphasis and rewards certian skills over others. As such, each game plays vastly different in it's own respects, but there truly has not been enough continuity to really label all the games as just "Halo". That's the biggest issue I'm seeing in this objective vs subjective argument. Players that enjoyed H1 the most are going to want to see what they find to have the most value in that game, applied to the Halos next entry etc etc It's actually kinda fcked when you think about it, we are almost all fans of something entirely different but we we still think it's the same game because it's labeled "Halo". Furthermore, and back to the sports parallel, within each sport there is hot debate as to what position or facet of the sport requires the most skill and talent. Yet HALO isn't even to the point of being a singular entity. And to make matters worse, you have 343i who truly catered to a vastly different audience then bungie fragmenting the player base to a cancerous level. So far I can't even call Halo 5 Halo and I disagree with just about everyone on how the game should be played. It's so far from Halo I see almost no value in holding onto the idealistic map design/gamemodes standards of "arena" Halo. It's all a big **** show now. Fck you Bungie for making reach and kill yourself 343i for taking there bait.