After playing MCC for a few hours I'm convinced that 343 doesn't know how to make a video game when I can aim perfectly fine on all of the other Halos (except Halo 3 because they messed that up too).
Sorry for the off topic but this **** just happened. Lmfao, I'm dying. He just triggered so many liberals. https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/881503147168071680
That's a bad decision, which would leave a bad taste in your mouth. You should be done after watching Thor, just saying.
A part of its gameplay, at least. We could probably write whole essays of feedback for dev maps. In fact, that's not a bad idea; someone go start a Dev Map Review thread. Should be a nice salt outlet a lot of people can share in
I like your idea but I don't feel like wasting my energy explaining why these maps suck only for someone to justify blue room on riptide
@MultiLockOn So my response with your first segment is to say that everyone has different things they look for in a map. You are more balanced in your approach, where I am heavily leaning on the functional aspect of design. The way you breakdown visuals is the way I break down geometry. A map can look boring as hell, but still have a concept that sets it apart from other maps. Not to flaunt myself here, but Tiers of Joy is exactly what I mean. It looks boring as hell, but the concept is something I've never seen before. I guess with Angst I can just say it stood the test of time. It just became a solid map (after plenty of updates), and that's all my goal was at the time. No Ceilings was more the idea that the more you simplify a map, the harder it is to make it stand out. It's not going to have the depth or the intricacies of a more complex layout. But, that wasn't my goal for the design. To answer that last question: No. I don't get lost in the environment on any map, in any game, anymore. Once I became a level design enthusiast, I started to look at maps as if they had no textures. I study geometry to the point where I can't experience maps that way anymore. So, that's where we differ. You probably see No Ceilings as cookie cutter in some respect, because it doesn't have a nice backdrop, or atmosphere, or ambient lighting, or hell, it doesn't even have textures. But I simply look at the geometry, and can't think of a map that looks anything like it. So, to me that is pushing boundaries. These are the two maps that influenced No Ceilings. You can see concepts I took inspiration from (walls that you walk on from Fatal Instict, and the general shape of Arena of Death), but what was the result is a map nothing like either of them. Hopefully, this answers your next segment, as well. I don't see this as me settling for less, or playing it safe. I see growth with each one of my maps from the last, and that's what I strive for. It's just what we look for in maps is different.
Hey hey, there's definitely a good reason why it's no longer in competitive play and I'm suuuuuuuper happy it's gone
Okay you're either cherrypicking or not understanding me. When I say getting lost in the environment I don't mean visuals, I completely mean the raw geometry of the map. Given and Xandy can quote me on this but I've said many times, "If you can't show me a raw blockout of your map with no details textures or color, and have me fall in love with the raw shape of the map - then I don't give a ****." That's my stance, which in principle sounds like the same as yours. Visuals don't mean **** unless you've got a great design with great pathing and a powerful shape to define the map. Which is exactly why I've dogged on you so much (again I'm not saying this to be rude right now). Any screenshot i look at of Angst perhaps, just reminds me of every other map I've seen in Reach with the rounded shallow ramps and the room divisions and blah blah. It really comes down to two things. How you do your large scale layout of the map, which is the shape. And the small scale pathing. The large scale layout is what defines a lot of the character of the map and how it would generally play. In essence; Amplified, Onslaught, Midship are all 2b2t but with different micro pathing. My biggest knock on Given's High Guard is that while the lines of sight and the small scale stuff is awesome because of it, the entire shape of the map with dualing sides is very played out. Boarding Action, Sword Base, Optic Prison - all these maps have relatively the same exact shape as High Guard. The second you step foot on the map and make that connection you already get a great idea of how it will play. Cobalt by Xandrith; practically Chillout with different side room composition and an extra open room on the end for snipe. You know what carries that map for me? The small scale stuff. The way his ramps wrap around in unusual ways and he has window slits at odd angles and convoluted pathing. It's just not something a typical forger would do and it makes the map interesting to move around because of it. When I knocked on Angst, take out the geo within each area and leave the shape of the map intact; are you looking at something unique and undiscovered? Or is it a cluster of rooms. Now look at the small scale stuff; are you finding new ways to connect pathing and interesting ramps and lines of sight or verticality or one way drop downs, just anything in particular that makes me go "Holy **** look how cool this area is!". I remember telling this same thing to Solo, i was like come on man just make something cool. Impress me, I know you can. BELIEVE me man, I am NOT any less focused on design than you are, I push that **** as hard as I can for anyone. But I like a good theme to go along with it. Because as hard as it might be, if you can create bitchin pathing that FEELSSS like what the map is supposed to be, AND it works at a fundamentally gameplay level, then you've got something cool. This is my favorite part of the map. Not because of the candles and the lighting, but because of the raw geometry. If I played this map without any detail or color so that it was a white blockout I'd still love it. It's just the interesting shape of a path serpentining through the mountain, how it drops into a teleporter while another route divulges straight above it. It's just interesting, and it so happens that it matches the hell theme. The path looks like it was something carved from demons hand, the slopes all make you feel like you're sliding off of a cliff into the lava below. And if the angles help you bounce nades and keep you facing the fight then so be it. That's why I like this map so much and have a hard time believing I'll ever top it. Take a look at this image i made really quick The shape of Oblivion is the top left. THAT is the large scale, general interpretation of Oblivion. Nothing is like that, nothing feels like that. Nothing looks like that, and as a result nothing will play like that. Can you tell me what the top right is? It could be High Guard, it could be Boarding Action, Optic Prison, any dueling sides map will have that shape. The bottom right is Arcanum, and frankly it's not as interesting as Oblivion. Which is why I'm still kinda bummed out about it. The key carries the map but the layout doesn't show the creativity I want it to. The bottom left? Who ****ing knows. Could be Cobalt, could be literally any room based map ever made in Halo Reach, any solo map. That's the sort of thing I want to see you and people push. Make somethinng crazy and new, because it doesn't matter how well it plays if it's not creative and fun to traverse and explore. And the visual environment has nothing to do with that. Otherwise it's no different than making 2b2t's all day. Seriously, no one gives a **** about a forger who makes middy clones because it takes no thought, we already know it works. They're not really designing anything. That's how I look at Solo maps; it's like common dude we get it. It works, we've played this. And once you've got a bitching shape then do something crazy with the small scale. Dont' just put a ramp from the floor to the next level; make it a Z-ramp, make it twist around a pillar, make it a lift that shoots you behind the room into a tele that drops you into it, makeit a death pit to fall in on a ledge, make it warp gate, make it a jump pad, SOMETHING. Otherwise the map itself doesn't have character. Hangar didn't have an interesting large scale layout, or quite literally ANYTHING interesting within it on the smaller scale. Seriously one of the most boring unimaginative maps I have ever seen. So do all this and blow me away that's all i've ever wanted. And if you can theme the map to look like something else; that's bonus point that really pushes it to the next level.
Multi I need your wisdom - barring all the help and insights from @Foge (many thanks!), my most polished map so far is beginning to feel a bit like a toilet bowl. I've got paths coming out my ass, but with the way I've designed it (very open air, to the point where the entire map is visible from quite a few *vulnerable* areas) the paths can seem almost pointless given how much potential to deviate from them I designed in. Plus the issue of the spawn engine, I don't want people to get trapped in the lower room when they respawn, but I don't want to add more walls or anything, given the whole point was to have a very open map - what do?
@MultiLockOn Alright, I guess I did misinterpret that. Okay, then we differ in that aspect as well. Don't take it offensive, but this whole concept of map shape is somewhat superficial. Will the shape affect the way it plays? Absolutely. But two perfect circle maps can play entirely differently. So, I don't put so much focus on that aspect. So, your biggest knock on High Guard is the broad concept it's built around, which I think is a bit unfair. Like you said, Optic Prison shares the idea. But, they play very differently. Which is my point. And to elaborate our differences here: my biggest knock is the lack of variety in the scale of the pathing. You are essentially walking on endless connections with little breathing room, besides the natural geometry segments. I'm not saying Cobalt is a bad map, but I don't understand how you lump room-based maps together as "Reach maps", but this doesn't fit that description. I can't help but feel you're just being nice to Xandrith here. And I'm sure he'll think I'm trying to give him a hard time, but I'm not. What is any map if not a cluster of rooms or areas? The point is how those segments play within themselves and with each other. Yes, Angst has some interesting LoS, useful alternative movement options, varied vertical interactions, and even a one way drop down. It has all of those things. So, here's another example of our differences. Again, try not to take offense, but those things that you like about Oblivion are basically why I don't like playing it. The one word I would use to describe my experience is "awkward". The high cave area I was talking to you about, the terrain sloping inward, the very steep hill climb, the ramps with a gap between them for some reason, the rocks in the lava that have invisible blockers on them, the two different methods of getting to high cave from the coffin room where you have to jump twice. It's just not a smooth experience. I'm not trying to say you shouldn't be proud or anything. I just want to give you my perspective, and how I look at maps. Yes, but to make a 2b2t map that stands out is even more of an accomplishment. That's why I think judging a map by its broad concept is a bad idea.
Can't run it now, am at work - here's the link: https://www.forgehub.com/maps/anchor.5386/ Roasting is good, charbroiling is sometimes better, but fee free to slow-smoke it - lighting, frame rate, and weapon balancing are known quantities, but any more info is always welcome :^) Oh and by the way I'm thinking of adding a teleporter somewhere that goes up to the oversheild.. possibly at the pink lights or in the main structure