I think the key issue that MultiLockOn is touching is that Halo has always been an Arena shooter, with weapons, key gameplay, design, and story elements that make it so. Tacking on AM mechanics to this system while attempting to maintain the original characteristics is like Mazda taking their new Miata and dropping in a 5 liter V8, and filling the trunk, passenger seat, and door panels with cement in order to keep the wheels on the road. Why speed it up if the only way to make it driveable is to cripple it? If Halo didn't already have such a pedigree, then the addition of the AM mechanics would definitely not have had as big an impact. Not to mention the ADS crap from CoD. If it had been a spinoff, as the title undercard suggests it may have been at some point, then by all means, try something different. Republic Commando, the game the whole squad mechanic was lifted from, was a Star Wars spinoff, focusing on non-Jedi, non-force characters, and that thing still has a cult following, as well as genuine praise from those who encountered it. Bottom line was that Halo 5 was incredibly inappropriate for a mainline Halo title.
The only thing I like about clamber is that jumping over to a ledge and failing to get on it because it was at shin level is dumb as ****.
That analogy is incredibly bias because it is built off of the idea that the AM mechanics arent liked by others. A better analogy is saying some people like a hamburger with pickles and other without. Depending on who you ask, both can be good, both can be bad, but one will always be prefered over the other. Many people on this website just happen to prefer the no pickle burger because they dont like the texture. Thats fine, they are entitled to their own opinion. But you cant reject the fact that a lot of people like pickles. Even 343 has a majority of people that like pickles. You cant just deny that. At the end of the day their will always be people reading off lists of all the reasons they dont like pickles. Even going into the history of Burger making. That doenst mean they are correct. smartscope wasnt implemented so the game played like CoD.. They did it so lesser used weapons became viable options again. The AR is incredibly underpowered in past Halo games; without smartscope, it would be worthless in halo 5 also. That is just one example, but I think you get the idea.
Was it you that tagged me in the updated lifts or someone else? I lost the post within the waywo pages. I wish you knew where it was because id rather 343 give it spotlight than another one of mine if it truly is better. Someone would love to have the compass and helmet that may not already. Mine was made in the first couple weeks of forge so no offense taken. Itll also save me a couple weeks of updating such an extremely old file.
I was under the impression the remake maps were selected prior to the old school play list being announced. Better get to updating
Honestly I think it's best just to remove them all together and bump speed across the board (movement, jump, etc). Keep clamber but balance it someway, ground pounds are debatable.
@LargerFiend How about we take this risk/reward even further. Why not slow down your character when aiming down sights? That way you'd have to choose between strafing and weapon zoom, just like call of duty. That would further separate movement and combat like you want. You say that like it’s a bad thing, I think that would be good. You write like you have have zero understanding of what an opinion is. Everything is either univerally correct or incorrect, according to you. Before this conversation goes any further; there is absolutely such a thing as a horrendously stupid opinion. Hitler was a nice guy, that's a stupid opinion. I think Halo should have the sword be the starting weapon. That's a stupid opinion. The moment your refutations are "Yeah but that's just your opinion" is the moment I and every other observer reading this conversation realize you have no ground. Also, your persona is quickly transitioning from stupid opinions, to cancerous-waypoint-manchild. I can afford to be a **** because everyone on this forum knows I'm not an idiot; you don't have that luxury. I'd suggest your phraseology takes a turn if you want to be taken seriously from anyone here. But yes, that would be an unequivocally "bad thing". You either choose to move, or to shoot. When the simple act of doing nothing in a competitive shooter is better than doing something, then you've failed as a designer. I could make the gun shoot bullets 90 degrees in every direction from your barrel the second you take a single step in game, that would REALLY be risk and reward. The second you lock eyes with another player they'd both freeze like deer and open fire. _________________________________ Why not add accuracy bonuses when zoomed in and crouched. Then the player REALLY hast to choose between not moving w/ great accuracy or the opposite. Risk and reward right. Do you play halo 5? They already have this. You can map people with the AR if you are lucky enough to be given the opportunity Yes, exactly. And it's absolutely retarded when I can be strafing my heart out and trying to pistol someone as they sit there and crouch and WIN THE FIGHT FOR NOT MOVING. There's something fundamentally wrong with that, and I can't imagine that flying in ANY competitive shooter off the top of my head. Not now, not a decade ago, not during Quake's reign. If you're okay with that then you just fundamentally believe in rock paper scissors because that's what the game turns into at that point. You're not advocating for a better strafe or better multitasking or which player can maneuver the map better amidst combat. And if you're not advocating for a mechanically skillful game then I don't know what you're advocating for because crouch bonuses isn't some mentally taxing strategy that only the pros can muster. It's what you see in Bronze 6 Staff Captain level gameplay and it does absolutely nothing for a shooter either mechanically or mentally. What's harder; shooting? Or shooting and moving? Good, now whichever one of those is more difficult is worth promoting in any game worth a damn. _________________________________ Why not remove accuracy from the player while they're in mid air, that way you have to choose very carefully when to jump and traverse. Super punishing, huge risk and reward. They already have the Stabilizer, so no need for this. It allows you to aim down sights when jumping, but the trade-off is that it makes you stationary in return. The purpose of the example was that if you were in the air your accuracy would be completely stripped, essentially how Destiny does it where your gun shoots off in 30 degree vectors in any direction while jumping. It makes jumping have absolutely no combat use and it dumbs down the game the same way any other mechanic that separates moving and combat does. Let's make players not be able to move while they punch. Let's make players not be able to move while they throw grenades, while they shoot. It's all the same. _________________________________ Halo's popularity is declining because 343 can’t manage ****. Halo 4 had an average story, with a below average multiplayer, and a below average forge mode, and a below average Spartan mini-campaign. MCC is well, MCC. Halo 5 had a dog-**** campaign, and the multiplayer had nothing of substance upon release, so not a lot of people were able to latch onto it. The heavy focus on competitive play along with a shitty custom game mode pushed away the casual players who make up like 90% of any gaming community; especially one whose legacy is built upon a great story. Halo is declining for many reasons; not the least of which is that the gameplay has slowly turned itself inside out from it's asshole beginning in Reach. Casual players might not immediately recognize the direct negatives of sprint but it absolutely hits them in more ways than you understand. The simple fact that Halo 5 requires 4 buttons just to move around the map at a decent speed, on top of a myriad of dual functions buttons makes the game EXTREMELY unapproachable to the average player. I've witnessed first hand a friend that plays many games routinely pick up a controller for a Halo 5 Fiesta match and after several minutes say, and I quote "What the **** do these buttons even do anymore I have no idea what I'm pressing in this game." Sprint among with all the other mobility options added make the game rival Killer Instinct for inputs-per-minute just to play at a basic level and if anything detracts from the skill ceiling. What happens when you raise the skill floor and lower the skill ceiling? You have a game that sits at #34th place on Xbox (lol Halo is the "system seller") and doesn't appeal to casual or competitive groups. I could hold forward on the thumbstick and occasionally press crouch when I jumped to maneuver in any other Halo title. Less is more. _________________________________ If you've ever heard the term "run 'n gun" shooter that was coined by Carmack after Doom/Quake and is used quite frequently to describe [older] Halo titles, it's exactly that. Run AND Gun, not Run OR Gun. Arena shooters and classic Halo have always been about no compromises, none of that move or shoot nonsense. ...So? I think you are forgetting that first person shooters aren’t that old. Game systems couldn’t handle the type of complexity we see today and developers didnt know what made a videogame competative so early on. There is no rule book for this type of thing. You are just piggy-backing off of nostalgia. You tell me which one of these games looks more competitive. Funny you say that considering quake is one of the first FPS's ever and it still is the most skill based shooter in the world. No FPS comes anywhere near it when it comes to movement tech, gun skill, mental depth, the whole shebang. If I'm piggy backing off of nostalgia then you're probably 13 and Halo 5 was the first Halo your mom bought you because it's rated T. Use your head if you're going to continue this discussion. _________________________________ There's so many memories I could pull from but the most apparent was a trick jump up to P3 on midship that I pulled off doing a 1v1 against a friend many years back on Halo 2. The jump was difficult enough for him to do but the moment I pulled off the crouch jump in combat with him when I was facing backwards was enough for his reaction to get burned into my memory every time this discussion comes up. So you are saying you took advantage of an advanced movement technique which allowed you to outplay your opponent? And it was a fond memory? Ironic. It also sounds like you were put at a disadvantage while performing it to! No. I'm literally saying the opposite. I WASN'T put at a disadvantage because I didn't have to turn and face the ****ing wall and launch into a climbing animation while getting shot in the back. I just crouch jumped backwards and continued to shoot the entire time. Because the game was designed better it allowed me to succeed. Separating movement and combat literally does not allow players to become as skillful as they might be otherwise. That wouldn't have been possible in Halo 5 because Truth is like 50 ****ing times bigger than midship and you need to clamber on everything. _________________________________ If you're skilled enough to make a really tricky jump while facing backwards to shoot somoene, you sure as **** deserve to be able to do that. Separating combat from movement (ie sprint) is exactly what kills map design. Build something too big (Truth) and you can't cross it in a half paced match without getting shot down if you're not moving at terminal verlocity. Build something properly scaled for kill times and utility weapon ranges (Empire) and it's just about ****ing impossible to control or kill anyone. I don’t even know what you are trying to say here. It just sounds like a bunch of excuses for you not being able to secure a kill because the person you were shooting was able to get away from you. If you actually don't notice any difficulty in designing maps in Halo 5 around the abilities then it essentially cements the fact that you're as poor at level design as you are stupid. There are hurdles among hurdles when it comes to designing in this game, in fact I'd go so far as to say Halo 5 because of it's extraneous movement tech is harder on level design than any game I have ever seen in my life. _________________________________ I’m Ranked High Onyx and I achieved it playing 100% solo and I have been playing halo since halo CE, so you can’t really use that stupid "only low level/inexperienced players like this" excuse on me. Cool, so am I. And so have I. Your skill level means **** bumpkiss when it comes to credibility in speaking about game design. Ever seen this video? All the best Halo players in the world saying that Halo 4 is the best Halo game to date. Guess it must be true. And for the record, nearly every relevant pro in Halo 5 has said at one point or another that they prefer a classic Halo. There's a ridiculous amount of polls done at Beyond if you want to check them out, it's something like 94%. _________________________________ Stupid idea. People already ***** about the pistol being OP. Great rebuttal. The pistol being as weak as it is, is the sole reason Halo 5 is so incredibly broken. If it were in line with the CE pistol the movement tech wouldn't be nearly as problematic. It needs a buff if anything. _________________________________ Same goes for clamber, it's not a risk or reward. It's just basic map movement now that you get punished and sit there in an animation. They DECREASED the H5 jump height to compensate and just about every basic jump requires clamber, there's no risk or reward to it. You have to clamber, and it's ****ing stupid. And even if they properly scaled maps so that crouch jumping could make the normal jumps & the clamber was a crutch; well then clamber would be used to further break and create MORE jumps that you wouldn't be able to make because everything is scaled for crouching. Yes, it is risk vs reward. You want to jump over walls and get behind cover quicker? You shouldn’t be able to also use your weapons. They lowed jump base height so it would be balanced. This is a common theme with you, whether you enjoy it or not, you have zero understanding of balancing gameplay. How does lowering jump height to balance clamber make sense if the net result is that you can make the same exact jumps you would've been able to make before, only now you have to face a wall and shove your face into the map. I could change Halo 5 settings to disable clamber and raise jump height and the ONLY thing that would happen is that players would be able to navigate the map better in combat and be more aggressive. Literally the only thing. Do you not support the idea that a more skilled player can succeed? The less animations that interrupt gameplay and take control away from the player, the better. _________________________________ EVEN IF 343 was smart and let you clamber in ANY direction like Black Ops & keep your gun up while doing it so as to not compromise movement and aggression, it STILL is a worse solution than just a normal crouch jump being slightly increased in height. Anything that takes away control from the player is a gimmick and a flaw in a game that wants so badly to be taken seriously. That means clamber, the absolutely ridiculous powerup animation which serves no purpose other than to kill you, sprinting, etc. Well crouch jumping looks stupid as ****, and it isn’t balanced. That’s my opinion. I agree with you on the power up animation, but that has nothing to do with advanced movement mechanics. The point is that it's a needless animation just like the powerup. WHY interrupt the players actions and take control away if you don't have to? What is the purpose of that? Not only does the player remain in control without clamber but they have the freedom to shoot and turn while doing it, and there is absolutely fundamentally nothing wrong with that. How are you actually going to say something isn't balanced when it does the same exact thing less intrusive. If I wanted animations to interrupt everything I do I'd play a Playstation exclusive or play the Halo 4 campaign and mash X to open a ****ing door. Not a [former] arena shooter. _________________________________ A player that is understanding of the situation they put themselves in and are able to use certain techniques to get out of said situation deserves to live. Does a player using armor lock deserve to live? No, quite literally never. But hey I guess that's risk and reward at the most primitive level right? You can't move an inch but you're invincible! Doesn't get any deeper or more skillful than that. I could give every player an instant teleport to safety button, that means that whenever they become one-shot and leave the battle, they earned it right? _________________________________ Translation: "I still have no Idea on how to play this game and I refuse to put the blame on myself for being unable to learn" I ranked Onyx 1860 last season in doubles and similarly in every season before since Halo 5 launched. I'm not bad at the game, I'm just not stupid enough to accept everything in it as progression. Something tells me you weren't capable at Halo until crouching with spray weapons was a winning strategy. Smart scope has jack **** to do with weapon balancing. There are quite literally infinite ways to balance a weapon that don't involve making it more accurate when you zoom in (which is an anti Halo/arena concept at it's core. You're rewarding the player who gets the first shot by knocking the other out of scope and being more accurate then them because of it). But the Halo CE AR was not only the strongest automatic in the Halo series (.65sec killtime) but had the most utility beyond that. The halo 3 AR was used plenty at Level 50 TS. The fact that you think it was worthless tells me everything I need to know about you. Maybe just don't suck so much next time? Just adapt. @icyhotspartin The thing is Halo was never an arena shooter, at best CE was quake lite but everything that's followed has been some weird hybrid of half arena shooter (weapons on map, even starts, uniform movement speed, skill based weapon balancing) and half squad shooter (recharging health, higher player counts, slow movement). Halo could have gone 2 ways if it didn't want to continue to be Halo. Become more arena shooter (non recharging health, fast base speed), or become more squad shooter (sprint, ADS, movement penalties, animations). Unfortunately they chose to homogenize with 90% of the game industry over the past 10 years and blend into the more brainless dumbed down squad shooter it is today. If Halo wasn't going to be Halo, I'd rather it have become an arena game where at least it would've been unique and skill based.
I lost it when he said it was a good thing that you can have a cross map advantage for CROUCHING WITH AN AR ahahahahahahahaahahaha
When did I say it was a good thing? I just said it was possible now because of the reduced recoil when crouched, which for some reason Multi had no idea even existed. Here is an example: --- Double Post Merged, May 16, 2017 --- I can afford to be a **** because everyone on this forum knows I'm not an idiot My appologys. I had no idea it was such an honor to be able to comment on a video game message board with a total of 4 regular visitors. Please excuse me and my naive, Hitler-esque opinions.
Do you have any idea how many times xandrith and I have sat on opposite ends of a forge canvas and crouch zoom AR'd each other while laughing our asses off at how utterly idiotic it was that we could even do that.
@Multi It's fine that you want to debate with this dude, but it seems you are trying to push him and newer people away. And I'm not ironically saying it as a way of poking fun at the mods; that's the honest impression I'm getting when I read your posts. I think Fiend has already proven he's not an idiot. He sure has unpopular opinions in this community, but he has solid logic behind them.
If "haha adapt!" Is solid logic then sure. I could care less is a member is new or old, I have no problem telling you that youre being an idiot either and you've been here years. At least that makes me unbias. Regardless, I honored him with more than a fair response that I don't usually spend the time to do. If you actually interpret that last novel as hostile than you have an objective. Don't really know what posts you're reading but anyone that advocates for slowing down movement while shooting is an idiot.
Why should I read this when I already know exactly what you we're gonna say and that you're right? Also, you forgot that Counterstrike has heavy movement vs combat trade offs and remains the most competitive FPS on the market. Thankfully high level and pro play involves exploiting movement for combat advantages(strafe shooting, scout jump shotting). Maybe Counterstrike has been around for so long that players have been able to use movement to their advantage. Fun fact: wasd in CS actually controls acceleration, not velocity.
A bit of oversimplification. He has reason for his opinions on armor abilities, and how they affect the game. He likes the idea of rewarding situational awareness by rewarding players for making the right decisions with the whole movement vs combat mechanic. In fact, it seems he'd prefer a more extreme example of it, so he isn't simply agreeing with what the developers did. He's got his opinions, and solid reasoning behind them. True. For the most part it was fine, but the 'you belong in waypoint' type of comments are just unnecessary, if you ask me.
Counterstrike knife boost isn't an animation, you can still do everything normally you're just not holding a gun. Regardless cs has the quick enough kill times to have some leniency regarding movement. And the movement delta in Halo 5 is much, MUCH larger. Completely different worlds here.
You know why I start with those comments? Because I just spent upwards of an hour and some change typing out a response that actually has merit to this clown and he's choosing to ignore it and not reply. He's obviously in this thread if he's liking posts. I've literally been on Halo forums since High impact Halo about 15 years ago, and every Halo title since the first has gotten progressively worse and worse. And what's sad is that the Halo community is this abused wife who's stupid enough to accept it now. Everyone saw the reaction to infinite warfare, it's the most disliked video on the internet. It literally forced the biggest game publisher in the world to force all following games to change the direction back to its roots. Consumers DO have a say over game development, it happens all the time if the community chooses to be vocal. But when dumbfucks like Fiend come in and promote crouch spraying as a viable strategy, refute with "maybe just adapt, and no one has the balls to tell them they're idiots, we get Halo 5. And Halo 6 instead of following the trend of every other successful franchise right now by going back to its roots will continue on this Spartan ability power ranger train on its journey to the #50 most played spot. Again. And you know what, after 7 years straight of typing "No sprint" and several pages following only to be met by "adapt", you start to lose patience. So no, I don't really care that he's a new member. Not only does he have stupid opinions but he has genuinely stupid reasoning behind them and I don't the willpower to hand type an essay to every Reach kid who loves how it looks to see his spartans arms pump up and down.
From what I can tell, every forum has a couple power users that despirately try to create an echo chamber because they stuggle to cope with having their opinions challenged. Reddit is also bad, but the community is much larger, so they can afford it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If you actually interpret that last novel as hostile than you have an objective. 1 - Also, your persona is quickly transitioning from stupid opinions, to cancerous-waypoint-manchild. I can afford to be a **** because everyone on this forum knows I'm not an idiot; you don't have that luxury. 2 - you're probably 13 and Halo 5 was the first Halo your mom bought you because it's rated T. 3 - you're as poor at level design as you are stupid. 4 - Your skill level means **** bumpkiss when it comes to credibility in speaking about game design. 5 - Something tells me you weren't capable at Halo until crouching with spray weapons was a winning strategy. 6 - The fact that you think it was worthless tells me everything I need to know about you. Maybe just don't suck so much next time? am I just falling for some elaborate troll? this is too good lmao ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Also, not sure how old those polls you reference to on teambeyond are, so here is a recent one done over muliple forums: http://imgur.com/a/rWbpB Conclusion - More people would prefer Sprint to stay as a perminent mechanic for halo 6 - More people prefer smartscope 343 has also publicly stated they really like the formula they used for halo 5 mechanics and that no major changes will be done to it for halo 6, so really, there is no point in discussing it now any further than we have already. Save your energy for when Halo 6 comes out.
You're out of your mind if you think im going to disect everything there. Nobody is worth that kind of effort. Infinite warfare was disliked because of mob-mentality. Guess what? it was still the most sold game of 2016, and has great ratings. And again, show me exactly where I said crouch spraying was good, or rather I was promoting crouch spraying. I just said it was possible. Go ahead and keep beating that strawman.