343 has already publicly stated that Halo 6 multiplayer will be built off of what they started with Halo 5. Unless they do a 180 mid-production on the game, that pretty much guarantees we're still going to have Armor Abilities/Spartan Abilities/Whatevertheydecidetospinthemasthistime Abilities in Halo 6. The new movement mechanics are fun. I like using them. I greatly dislike the impact they have on the way the game plays though. I think it's important to be able to make that distinction.
double jump would be too much, expecially after seeing the test footage they had. At least they made clamber feel good in this game. Anyone here play CoD or battlefield? Clamber is so shitty in those games.
It's not about liking them. I enjoy using some of the spartan abilities. They are, dare I say, fun. However, the game as a whole is suffering as a result. Halo was unique, but with the addition of spartan abilities, ADS, sprint, revamped aiming, and more, the game feels like a cartoony, less polished call of duty with an uninteresting story. A lot of what is wrong with he game can be directly linked to the severe lack of talent at 343, but a bad idea is a bad idea, no matter how polished. See: Halo Reach. --- Double Post Merged, May 16, 2017 --- In black ops 3 you can clamber in any direction and it doesn't make you lower your weapon. That's a million times better than Halo 5.
H5 movement was a step in the right direction (better than Reach or 4 imo) but I feel all of the Spartan abilities need to be looked at for H6. Whether that means tweaking some or removing some, that I don't know.
Okay. There's quite literally NOTHING clamber achieves that double jump couldn't replicate without being awkward as **** and forcing you into gluing your player model to the map as he climbs a ledge. The jump height could always be adjusted accordingly. And since you mentioned, Bo3 clamber let's you do it in any direction and keep your gun up while doing it. Explain to me how that's worse.
Clamber could be a double jump. 1000% improvement. There's no difference between thrust and a good strafe, thrust is just more brainless. Just increase strafe speed and add air control. Slide I don't care but needs to have more utility a la Titanfall, it's useless now Ads can suck my ass Spartan charge can get the **** out of Halo Stabilize is whatever, shouldn't be tied to zooming though its so awkward. Ground pound is redundant and dumb.
I don’t think you should have your weapon ready while taking advantage of a defensive tactic. You should also have to sacrifice your offensive capabilities in exchange for moving around the map differently. Same thing with sprint, you sacrifice your ability to have your weapon ready and shield recharge so you can have increased mobility. Its all about risk vs reward.
the problem with the sprint risk/reward is that the $#$ advanced mobility centered gameplay requires the maps to be designed in a manner that caters to sprinting. That makes it pretty shitty to be tied to regular speed/mobility when everyone else gunning for you is going to be sprinting in your direction - the only way to balance that out would be to speed up shield recharge, which ****s everything else up about engagements, map control, etc.. And I say this as someone that enjoys the extra level of mobility in a non-Halo vacuum - I find the movement interesting and tactically challenging, but it often is too quick and sluggish at the same time, and takes me out of the classic heavy feel I'm used to.
Here's an idea for slide: how about when you reach maximum slide speed and melee at the peak, it gives you a slight thrust when meleeing. Like your lunge distance is increased a bit. Not anything near Spartan charge levels though. I find myself sliding and expecting this already kind of. It's a small change and could another layer to slide/melee, and could possibly replace Spartan Charge. Could be though
Breath of the Wild has got me thinking a general stamina meter could be added to the HUD and tied to Spartan abilities if sprint was removed. Like a recharging bar that depletes every time you slide/thrust/clamber etc. That way the mechanics wouldn't be tied to sprint and the abilities would take a lot more patience, map knowledge/control, skill etc. The buttons would need to be remapped to fit individual buttons for the Spartan abilities though. Just an idea
I would normally resort to calling you an idiot but I figured it's been a whiles since I've actually honored anything with a proper response so here. How about we take this risk/reward even further. Why not slow down your character when aiming down sights? That way you'd have to choose between strafing and weapon zoom, just like call of duty. That would further separate movement and combat like you want. Why not add accuracy bonuses when zoomed in and crouched. Then the player REALLY hast to choose between not moving w/ great accuracy or the opposite. Risk and reward right. Why not remove accuracy from the player while they're in mid air, that way you have to choose very carefully when to jump and traverse. Super punishing, huge risk and reward. What I'm getting at is the whole "risk vs reward / movement vs combat" mentality that seems to sound great on paper to so many people is actually an awful way to design anything remotely competitive, and further we move towards that principle the more compromised and unpopular the game becomes. If you've ever heard the term "run 'n gun" shooter that was coined by Carmack after Doom/Quake and is used quite frequently to describe [older] Halo titles, it's exactly that. Run AND Gun, not Run OR Gun. Arena shooters and classic Halo have always been about no compromises, none of that move or shoot nonsense. If you're skilled enough to make a really tricky jump while facing backwards to shoot somoene, you sure as **** deserve to be able to do that. Separating combat from movement (ie sprint) is exactly what kills map design. Build something too big (Truth) and you can't cross it in a half paced match without getting shot down if you're not moving at terminal verlocity. Build something properly scaled for kill times and utility weapon ranges (Empire) and it's just about ****ing impossible to control or kill anyone. There's so many memories I could pull from but the most apparent was a trick jump up to P3 on midship that I pulled off doing a 1v1 against a friend many years back on Halo 2. The jump was difficult enough for him to do but the moment I pulled off the crouch jump in combat with him when I was facing backwards was enough for his reaction to get burned into my memory every time this discussion comes up. Again, separating the two and creating this whole "risk vs reward" nonsense does nothing but cripple and slow the game. It's just the illusion of speed when in reality it does the opposite, and you could accomplish all the mental benefits that low level players love about moving fast just by creating faster base movement speed, having the players arms pump up and down, widening the FOV, speed lines, etc. and letting the player shoot their gun while doing it. You know how much people would geek out if you could sprint in Halo 5 and shoot the pistol at the same time with your right arm extended forward, left arm pumping, looking like a badass. Same goes for clamber, it's not a risk or reward. It's just basic map movement now that you get punished and sit there in an animation. They DECREASED the H5 jump height to compensate and just about every basic jump requires clamber, there's no risk or reward to it. You have to clamber, and it's ****ing stupid. And even if they properly scaled maps so that crouch jumping could make the normal jumps & the clamber was a crutch; well then clamber would be used to further break and create MORE jumps that you wouldn't be able to make because everything is scaled for crouching. EVEN IF 343 was smart and let you clamber in ANY direction like Black Ops & keep your gun up while doing it so as to not compromise movement and aggression, it STILL is a worse solution than just a normal crouch jump being slightly increased in height. Anything that takes away control from the player is a gimmick and a flaw in a game that wants so badly to be taken seriously. That means clamber, the absolutely ridiculous powerup animation which serves no purpose other than to kill you, sprinting, etc. Bottom line, a player that is skilled enough to move and shoot at the same time should be rewarded for doing so, not punished. Separating the two only creates a skill ceiling. And the "mental depth" that sprint introduces in choosing between sprinting and walking is so barbarically stupid and simple yet detracts from the level design and mechanical skill ceiling so much that it's not even worth discussing. If you want to continue to advocate for ridiculous animations then find another series to ruin because you're not helping this one. Nothing in a competitive even starts game should require a cool down. This isn't some rule or anything but just a principle I've come to accept. Why does thruster have a cooler down in Halo 5. Because it's hilariously broken if you remove the cool down and spam the thrust button. You move way too fast, too easily, and a console controller has little success in tracking the speed and distance of a thrusting player. So thrust really isn't balanced at all now is it. Just because you can only do it once every 3 seconds doesn't make it balanced as opposed to once every time you press the button. That's no different than arming every player with a nuke strapped to their chest that wipes everyone on the map but saying "Yeah but you can only do it once a game". It's still ****ing stupid. If you need a cooldown or timer to balance an ability, it's probably not balanced in the first place. It's better just to find a better mechanic replacement, ergo a strafe jump to replace thrust that's only limited to the player's skill to enter an input and not a ridiculous timer.
I have the urge to argue ways in which spartan abilities could be improved. Then I remember that the best way to improve them is just to remove them. Making them less shitty still leaves us with ****. They should all be removed, period.
How about we take this risk/reward even further. Why not slow down your character when aiming down sights? That way you'd have to choose between strafing and weapon zoom, just like call of duty. That would further separate movement and combat like you want. You say that like it’s a bad thing, I think that would be good. You write like you have have zero understanding of what an opinion is. Everything is either univerally correct or incorrect, according to you. Why not add accuracy bonuses when zoomed in and crouched. Then the player REALLY hast to choose between not moving w/ great accuracy or the opposite. Risk and reward right. Do you play halo 5? They already have this. You can map people with the AR if you are lucky enough to be given the opportunity Why not remove accuracy from the player while they're in mid air, that way you have to choose very carefully when to jump and traverse. Super punishing, huge risk and reward. They already have the Stabilizer, so no need for this. It allows you to aim down sights when jumping, but the trade-off is that it makes you stationary in return. What I'm getting at is the whole "risk vs reward / movement vs combat" mentality that seems to sound great on paper to so many people is actually an awful way to design anything remotely competitive, and further we move towards that principle the more compromised and unpopular the game becomes. Halo's popularity is declining because 343 can’t manage ****. Halo 4 had an average story, with a below average multiplayer, and a below average forge mode, and a below average Spartan mini-campaign. MCC is well, MCC. Halo 5 had a dog-**** campaign, and the multiplayer had nothing of substance upon release, so not a lot of people were able to latch onto it. The heavy focus on competitive play along with a shitty custom game mode pushed away the casual players who make up like 90% of any gaming community; especially one whose legacy is built upon a great story. If you've ever heard the term "run 'n gun" shooter that was coined by Carmack after Doom/Quake and is used quite frequently to describe [older] Halo titles, it's exactly that. Run AND Gun, not Run OR Gun. Arena shooters and classic Halo have always been about no compromises, none of that move or shoot nonsense. ...So? I think you are forgetting that first person shooters aren’t that old. Game systems couldn’t handle the type of complexity we see today and developers didnt know what made a videogame competative so early on. There is no rule book for this type of thing. You are just piggy-backing off of nostalgia. If you're skilled enough to make a really tricky jump while facing backwards to shoot somoene, you sure as **** deserve to be able to do that. Separating combat from movement (ie sprint) is exactly what kills map design. Build something too big (Truth) and you can't cross it in a half paced match without getting shot down if you're not moving at terminal verlocity. Build something properly scaled for kill times and utility weapon ranges (Empire) and it's just about ****ing impossible to control or kill anyone. I don’t even know what you are trying to say here. It just sounds like a bunch of excuses for you not being able to secure a kill because the person you were shooting was able to get away from you. There's so many memories I could pull from but the most apparent was a trick jump up to P3 on midship that I pulled off doing a 1v1 against a friend many years back on Halo 2. The jump was difficult enough for him to do but the moment I pulled off the crouch jump in combat with him when I was facing backwards was enough for his reaction to get burned into my memory every time this discussion comes up. So you are saying you took advantage of an advanced movement technique which allowed you to outplay your opponent? And it was a fond memory? Ironic. It also sounds like you were put at a disadvantage while performing it to! Again, separating the two and creating this whole "risk vs reward" nonsense does nothing but cripple and slow the game. It's just the illusion of speed when in reality it does the opposite, This a map scaling and base movement speed issue. This isn’t a sprint issue. I think our Spartans look tiny compared to the environment they play in. I would 100% support lowering base and sprint movement speed. and you could accomplish all the mental benefits that low level players love about moving fast just by creating faster base movement speed, I’m Ranked High Onyx and I achieved it playing 100% solo and I have been playing halo since halo CE, so you can’t really use that stupid "only low level/inexperienced players like this" excuse on me. having the players arms pump up and down, widening the FOV, speed lines, etc. and letting the player shoot their gun while doing it. You know how much people would geek out if you could sprint in Halo 5 and shoot the pistol at the same time with your right arm extended forward, left arm pumping, looking like a badass. Stupid idea. People already ***** about the pistol being OP. Same goes for clamber, it's not a risk or reward. It's just basic map movement now that you get punished and sit there in an animation. They DECREASED the H5 jump height to compensate and just about every basic jump requires clamber, there's no risk or reward to it. You have to clamber, and it's ****ing stupid. And even if they properly scaled maps so that crouch jumping could make the normal jumps & the clamber was a crutch; well then clamber would be used to further break and create MORE jumps that you wouldn't be able to make because everything is scaled for crouching. Yes, it is risk vs reward. You want to jump over walls and get behind cover quicker? You shouldn’t be able to also use your weapons. They lowed jump base height so it would be balanced. This is a common theme with you, whether you enjoy it or not, you have zero understanding of balancing gameplay. EVEN IF 343 was smart and let you clamber in ANY direction like Black Ops & keep your gun up while doing it so as to not compromise movement and aggression, it STILL is a worse solution than just a normal crouch jump being slightly increased in height. Anything that takes away control from the player is a gimmick and a flaw in a game that wants so badly to be taken seriously. That means clamber, the absolutely ridiculous powerup animation which serves no purpose other than to kill you, sprinting, etc. Well crouch jumping looks stupid as ****, and it isn’t balanced. That’s my opinion. I agree with you on the power up animation, but that has nothing to do with advanced movement mechanics. Bottom line, a player that is skilled enough to move and shoot at the same time should be rewarded for doing so, not punished. A player that is understanding of the situation they put themselves in and are able to use certain techniques to get out of said situation deserves to live. Separating the two only creates a skill ceiling. And the "mental depth" that sprint introduces in choosing between sprinting and walking is so barbarically stupid and simple yet detracts from the level design and mechanical skill ceiling so much that it's not even worth discussing. Translation: "I still have no Idea on how to play this game and I refuse to put the blame on myself for being unable to learn" If you want to continue to advocate for ridiculous animations then find another series to ruin because you're not helping this one. I’m sorry, I had no idea Microsoft dedicated this game franchise to you. I must have missed that lmao --------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is a screenshot of my map progress so this post doesnt get removed for being off track:
You put it much clearer than I ever could. But anyway, @WeedCough try and imagine playing Halo 3 with clamber, thrusting, and sliding on a timer. You move slow as anything, so that negates the believability of a slide mechanic, unless you have to crouch and then thrust in order to get it going, which is like playing Street Fighter, not an arena shooter. The clamber breaks the jump design, changing the way vertical gameplay happens - it divides jumps into clean and interrupted, which is just another risk/reward type thing that takes control away from the player. Crouch requires active input from the player, and is indicative of a greater technical skill. Thrusting is the same, but in a single-speed arena game, adding nitrous is going to break the flow, and will still affect the way maps are designed - some areas will only be accessible via a thrust jump, much in the way the majority of Halo 5's maps are entirely scaled for this.