(Maps) Remakes or Originals?

I haven't liked a single map remake ever.

Spiritual successors are cool though,

 

Remakes have their place. They're a good way to get used to new mapping tools mostly. I don't really get why some people get such a hate-boner for them, they're so inoffensive.

 

Originals over remakes no doubt, but not to say remakes don't have a place. Keep the amount small, and do it correctly. Spiritual successors count as originals in my eyes.

Good examples of remakes: Heretic, Pitfall, Battle Canyon, Warlock

Meh examples of remakes:
Cold Storage, High Noon, Solitary, Mercy

Bad examples of remakes:
The Reach disc Forge maps, Blackout, Pennence, Desolation, Truth

 

I love both original maps and remakes. Remakes that have the 100% correct geometry, lines of sight and scaling. When you load them up, they should give you that nostalgic feeling or they are done wrong. Remakes in that aspect or extremely the most difficult to nail the aesthetic theme perfectly due to the tools we have available currently. I think reskinned version's of the old maps with the right lines of sight and built with the new gameplay mechanics are much more enjoyable for newer games though. If they come on the disc map or someone wants to revamp an old favorite, that's cool.

Original maps of course have their place as unique, new and fun because they are different to the same old maps we have played over and over again. They are difficult to think of something no one really has built before. I prefer symmetrical / inverse symmetrical maps for competitive play. Asymmetrical maps are extremely difficult to ensure balanced gameplay without excessive testing. I think that Halo 5 asym maps sucks for gameplay and didn't get proper testing however. Plaza for example - It has the red team spawning on a lower level of the map on initial spawn in doubles and blue on the higher ground. Red team has to clamber or run a longer path to get the overshield which results in them typically always losing out on the overshield. Blue team has a clear line to it and once you pick that up you get the Sniper Rifle guaranteed. That means if I spawn blue team I am practically guaranteed an easy 3+ kill lead right from the beginning of the game.


I still think they should have a contest for people to build a unique map of spiritual successors to Lockout and Guardian or even just for fun share blockouts or sketches of a unique four way symmetrical map that isn't warlock. The Blackout map had geometry changes and scaling issues all the way around and was to visually over complicated for that theme.

 

I don't mind remakes if they are built to the playing scale of the game. For instance take Halo 3's The Pit, if you were to play on a 1:1 scale of that map in Halo 5, with the added armor abilities I think the map would play quite bad. Played on a few versions of The Pit in Halo 5 and I haven't found one that I really like in terms scaling. So remakes are a tricky thing to accomplish and for any forger who can create something resembles a disc map and plays well with the current game, gold stars for them.

Original maps, they have a special place for me since majority of the maps that are considered originals, IMO we should feel special to be able to play on someone's creation. The reason behind this is, it may not turn out to be as iconic as a disc map or famously played original map, but giving the creator who I believe is on the same level as me in terms as independent community level designer the respect that I wish to receive, is something that all of us should strive to do. Not saying original maps are better than remakes, remakes IMO are sometimes harder to achieve the likeability status because the maps even more challenges than a original map doesn't have to achieve. But then again, getting a original level in the hands of thousands is a feat in itself.

In the end, each category has a special place of love from me and even with disc maps, there are a few maps that no one will ever forget how awesome they were (some that we will absolutely hate...).

 

A monthly "adaptation" contest would be pretty cool. Give a flawed or fan favorite dev map and get everyone to redesign it how they see fit. The main objective would be to fix its flaws and possibly make it better than the original.

 

That's not a bad idea. Like how could we make a disc map play better? I think some of the members used to do this in the past to help MLG events and such. I think if it's logical, well worded and executed professionally, I would think 343 would take in the feedback regarding changes towards a disc map.

 

Nitro, that's highly hopeful yet extremely doubtful... They posted requests to submit forge maps for specific types of playlists on the HaloWaypoint site well over a year ago. Aside from infection, Action sack, some BTB maps and a brief doubles forge list, they don't ever put in any forge maps or playlists aside from their crappy Orion and Pegasus maps they forged. They don't take competitive maps being forged serious or care about our input to implement any changes on their maps aside from possibly weapon changes.

 

I like it when a remake has a bit of a twist to it. Maybe some degrading or overgrowth to what was originally there. Subtle pathing changes and stuff just to make it fresh but still feel familiar. If a map is going to be reused I like its age to show.

 

To quote a wise man...

"Remakes are stupid and don't deserve any attention."

 

I never said that..

 

They're only fun if they work with the game. Those CE maps in that Reach DLC were pretty but not all of them played well.

And Ragnarok in H4 was so awful.

 

Nobody likes a wise-ass...

 

i do

 

I like remakes. But they never work in new games because Halo thinks something revolutionary needs to change in terms of gameplay every title. If a remake doesn't work, it's because the game isn't working. Nothing should be rescaled and distorted. That's stupid. All that does is ruin the original charm of the map, and it will never play the same. THATS HOW YOU GET TRUTH FROM MIDSHIP.

Obviously new maps are more exciting, and have potential for new gameplay experiences, but that isn't what we're getting. We're getting terrible frankensteined maps that even the developer doesn't dare put into their pro circuit. (Riptide, Overgrowth, Torq-stis)

When you think about it, there really isn't an option to choose. You can't have remakes when the game itself keeps changing. You have to have new maps, and modern devs only make safe and stale boxes. Every title should have a remake map pack or something. Just get rid of these absurd abilities so we can do that again.

 

I totally agree with what you are saying but IMO every Halo title is going to need some form of Valhalla/Blood Gultch.

 

the problem is Halo takes 3 years to make and they want to do something revolutionary every 3 years.

 

TBH I would like to see our favorite maps evolve over time. Look at CS:GO and some of their maps, de_Nuke for example - http://www.counter-strike.net/reintroducing_nuke/ that map has many updates over the years and some drastically big ones in CS:GO alone. If remakes were passed on from one game to another, this is what I would like to have seen.