The feeling is mutual. It is like I am talking to someone who doesn't listen to the mod and continues to come after me when I already said I was done. So you are saying you had a bias towards a friend. I thought you were unbiased. Shocker. --- Double Post Merged, Apr 10, 2017 --- Dweeb thanks for sticking up for me but he set this trap for me to try and make me look like a douche. Jokes on him. I don't care if I look like a douche.
I can see where you're coming from, I've just never been really impressed by any of his maps. In fact, I thought Optic prison was terrible, and Multi even said it was a good map. I could explain in depth why I feel that way, but that's a different conversation.
I love optic prison. People don't like it because of the type of gameplay it promotes. However this is subjective. You don't like that you can't play the way you want but if that was the designers intention is it a bad map? If the designer accomplishes their gameplay goals then mission accomplished
Purely is trying to convince everyone I don't even like the maps I have saved. What is this world. Purely is just a little angry ball of hate.
that isn't the problem for me. It isn't that I can't play the way I want, it's that there isn't any interesting encounters. In fact what you just said was exactly how Legion was made, funny enough. I hate when people say the word "subjective" because I believe there's an objective truth to everything. There has to be. I just don't see any depth to the design. It works just fine, but there's nothing special about it. The main thing carrying it is the gimmick of all 4 powers. if you remove those, the map collapses, and may as well be symmetrical. That's just a sample portion of my opinion. I love variation in designs, but I'm not easily impressed. I don't even like my older designs. I've grown as a designer at a rapid pace during H5. Each map I make is better than the last. I haven't peaked yet, but I'm leagues ahead of where I started.
I don't think I am the ball of hate. I didn't make a thread and throw shade at someone at the end of it. ****, I don't even talk about this **** unless somebody else in the party brings it up. @MultiLockOn We don't need to like each other but I have lost interest in this whole thing and I am willing to drop it. **** I was dropping it until you called me out. You don't have to like what I say. You can say it is BS, but my opinion won't change and neither will yours. @Given To Fly I don't really like Optic either. It was just a design I had happened to finish at that point. I have better maps. I find it funny that people think the map was actually designed originally to have 4 powerups. It wasn't. I just hate the ****ing sandbox and found power ups and the OG hydra as the only redeemable things about it at the time. Then they ****ed it by buffing the hydra. If there were less OP power weapons in the game I probably would have used those.
@Given To Fly I think it'd be wise for you to keep from posting in this thread, given the fact that you're a mod and also a part of this feud. Your post started off good, encouraging the bickering to stop, but then you finished it with absolute nonsense. You need to have a higher standard of control as staff. There's a few reasons why these arguments keep happening, but the one I'd like to point out is the difference of philosophy. The very basic concept of subjectivity vs objectivity. Given and Multi seem to have this goal of being the best, and that is only possible if you believe level design is objective. Tyrant and I believe level design is subjective, so the goal of being the best is unattainable. And speaking my subjective opinion, Given: I think you make some of the better looking maps in forge, but the gameplay always feels second-thought. Conforming to a cohesive and believable theme seems to be more important than providing a solid experience.
I can't help but laugh when people say this. I LITERALLY have a video and channel built around that concept. Yes, **** is subjective. Everything is subjective. I wrote a ****ing book about it. That doesn't mean there's no such thing as a bad map, so don't use that as an excuse. People can still create generic derivative dribble bullshit.
No need to be so hostile. When someone challenges your opinion. This is part of the problem. I like your voice. This is serious and not sarcastic. Just like some other things I had said previously that were nice. Like you learning Radiant so fast. If you did that is awesome.
No one is challenging my opinion. I just don't even understand what xzamp is getting at when he says level design is subjective.
And speaking my subjective opinion, Given: I think you make some of the better looking maps in forge, but the gameplay always feels second-thought. Conforming to a cohesive and believable theme seems to be more important than providing a solid experience. Literally every time you give critique, it has to do with "aesthetics over gameplay" We get it, you aren't capable of comprehending maps that consist of more than well-lit gray cubes. Stop trying to tell other people that they focus too much on aesthetics because your hadicapped brain can't handle contrast. Especially after proving that you know absolutely jack **** about design in the first place by defending Malta. --- Double Post Merged, Apr 10, 2017 --- "You are a little ******. Go have choke sex with Given again." "No need to be so hostile" I don't even know what to say ahahaha
What don't you get? I just said that saying "_ is a bad map" or "_ is the best map" is silly, if you are stating it like it's fact. What you consider the best, others may not agree. That's why you shouldn't push your opinions onto others. And "generic" is rather silly as well. Generic to who? That's based on the maps the individual has had experience with.
First of all, Halo sucks ****, especially this one. With that out of the way, I will offer my 2 cents: Level design to me has been about producing a holistic experience. It's about taking the player on a journey and selling them on your vision. You invite them into your world and you offer them a taste of a certain style of gameplay, which you enrich with your map's theme and impress with your presentation. Every map needs to have a vision for gameplay and a direction for visuals. The Forger then uses every tool at their disposal to push the map to its potential based upon their vision. To me, that doesn't stop from blockout phase till the thread is posted online. There are some Forgers who want to one-up themselves every time and that's great. Likewise, there are others who simply want to produce their ideas, and that's also great. Level design is creative art, and art has a long history of being made and appreciated in many different ways. Appreciating art is about appealing to your audience. There is no such thing as a map everyone will like, but I think the perfect map as the designer sees it absolutely can be achieved if it accomplishes what they set out to do. At that point, you will find your audience, and some maps will undoubtedly have larger audiences than others. For example, I think people who prefer "simple and clean" maps are entitled to that preference, but their audience may potentially be limited as the industry has shifted towards more detailed designs. Similarly, maps that are "punishing" will alienate many players who feel more comfortable playing something easier. It's just the way it works. Nevertheless, it's all about intention. A bad map to me is a map that simply fails to reach the designer's goals. Personally, I am not very good at reaching my goals; therefore, in my quest for my perfect map, I frequently run into the problem where I change my mind midway through a project, get attached, and then forget what I wanted in the first place. Or i'll hear something about a design and decide that I don't like that and go back to the drawing board. This obviously leads to many unfinished projects, but it is important to me that I continue to push myself, solidifying my goals and turning concepts on their head to bring out the potential of my vision. When I reach that point, it wont matter how others see my creation. It's impossible to please everyone, so you can never be the best ever. I only want to be the best at the kind of maps I like making, because that's all you can do, give your 100%. I have learned a lot about Forge and design from @Sethiroth, @SaltyKoala, @xdemption, @Dweeb and of course @MultiLockOn, and all of that knowledge has allowed me to become an extraordinary Forger. I never thought I would be as capable as I am now when I went into this game and I am forever grateful that these individuals shared their time and experience with me. There are many others who have inspired me or helped me in some way and I'd hope that they all share in my success. But they have also been there for the many failures, and I wish Forgers would realize that failure is a natural part of your own success, not an alternative. I didn't understand this until recently, but as I explore other creative endeavors, I've come to realize this one simple truth: overcoming external and internal challenges by confronting your failures and your own views is the only way to grow as an artist and as a person. If there is one thing I can impress upon this discussion, it's that driving up walls and being narrow minded will only stifle creativity and growth.
Oh **** you did lol I've appreciated talking design with you over the years and I can only hope you've appreciated my feedback on your maps as much I've appreciated yours. Hope you don't completely leave the Halo community with your new job. You obviously didn't quit during Halo 4 and H2A like I did, and your feedback to get my feet back on the ground during Halo 5 has been awesome, since my level design knowledge obviously stagnated for a bit while you kept growing. Alt Drei forever.
I personally agree the pistol to pistol battles arent the most interesting but that isnt what makes me love the map for what it is. A lot of power is given to the player on the map. Individual skill is rewarded. I find the map to be very manipulative and punishing for not making correct plays. Yeah the 4 power ups hold the map together, but thats why its great in my opinion. It keep people moving. And I love how aggressive legion is, I wish more people would attempt to make designs like it. Trinity as well, you have fights on high catwalks and you either drop to stay alive or die and when dropping it promotes aggressiveness in the player up shots because you want to keep them on the bottom. There is more to it than that obviously but that style design I really appreciate.
Getting hired by an AAA developer is certainly an accomplishment but isn't a fair comparison to other forgers to say he's the best for that reason. To the majority of forgers, this is a hobby. To say that multi is better than someone else just because he took it to the extreme and pursued a career vs someone who does this for fun and enjoyment isn't fair. Multi is talented, definitely one of the better forgers in this game. Can easily be argued as the best, but getting a job because of it isnt the argument I'd make. To just give an example. If for some reason a developer reached out to me and offered me a job designing maps... I'd turn it down. Not only would i likely have to move out west, but I'd likely have to take a substantial pay cut. It's just not worth it, I enjoy it more as a hobby as I'm sure many people in the community would also turn down a similar job if they were happy where they are. ..... The debate on this thread honestly has way too many personal attacks and not enough substance. It's the same kind of personal attacks that got the waywo locked. Just because you don't respect someone as a designer, doesn't mean they may not have valid opinions. ..... Just a disclaimer, I'm not the best forger, that's not my goal, but even if I thought I was I wouldn't gloat about it heres my opinion: If you are claiming to be the best at something that cannot be quantified, or measured, then you're asking to be hated on. Usain bolt is the fastest person on the planet. Michael phelps is the fastest swimmer in the world. These are things that are easily measured. If either of those people went and said "I'm the best at what I do" nobody could say otherwise. There's no room for debate. On the other hand, if all of a sudden leonel Messi started claiming he was the best soccer player to ever live, sports writers would have a field day talking about how Pelè and Ronaldo are better. The best players never claim to be the best, they let their piers do the talking for them. The greats that are humble are more often looked upon favorably by the fans.
****, I'm always late to these kinds of things too. Remember when I mentioned that Pride is a big factor in all this? Hoh boy, isn't this just a grand example(z) of it.