A Letter to Forgehub

Discussion in 'Halo and Forge Discussion' started by MultiLockOn, Apr 9, 2017.

  1. MultiLockOn

    MultiLockOn Ancient
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    No this isn't an "I'm leaving" thread or anything bad. I wanted to take a moment to write about my history here and thank the people that need thanking.

    I started forging when Foundry dropped in Halo 3. I had seen some incredible forge contraptions before such as True Dark Fusion's Sandtrap
    catapult,




    but it wasn't until the RvB ad for foundry that I actually delved in. This meant all the usual stuff. Zombie maps, friend vs friend bases, the whole 9 yards. I picked up on the forge glitches fairly quickly, even if it meant I still didn't know what I was making. But then again, who did in Halo 3 :)
    My fist map was MLG Heightened, which was essentially a much worse copy of Omni (a fairly popular map at the time).



    I was a good forger in Halo 3, but not a great one. And certainly not one of the best. I made sure to make an account on every forge forum I could and keep up with what people were making. Just off the top of my head I can remember Forgehub, XForgery, Monitor Built, Paradox Forgers, Battletracks, Halo Tracks, Halo 3 Gophers, Forgery Aid, Ghosts of onyx, and I'm sure there were many more that I can't remember. I met a lot of people then that I still talk to to this very day. Ace, Given, and a few others. All of whom were much better than me.

    Reach rubbed me the wrong way in just about every aspect. They improved forge but changed the textures so that you couldn't mesh objects together without them looking ridiculous. Needless to say I didn't last long and stopped playing Reach after posting a single map (one that wasn't very impressive). In retrospect I wish I had stuck around because a lot of good maps were made in Reach.

    Halo 4 was a lot of the same. I forged a single map and decided the game wasn't for me.

    Along comes the Master Chief collection. An entire year of endless game crashes, shitty ports, and the H2A forge. Where I found again, I couldn't mesh objects without them looking ridiculous. But all hope wasn't lost. When one day Given came to me with a map called Remnant, the first all metal map (yes Given was the true creator of the metal if you didn't know). Now Given has always been a kick ass forger but this was next level ****. And I guarantee if I wasn't as good of friends with him during that year, my forge maps wouldn't have turned out to be half as good as they ended up being.

    Everyone forges for different reasons. Some because it's relaxing, some because they enjoy the maps they make. But for me, it's always been about being the best. You can call that shallow or ridiculous but it's really just the nature of how I think. I'm a competitive person and every time Given would come to me with a new map that continuously raised the bar, I would get insanely frustrated. Deep down I knew he was better than me and I didn't want that. It frustrated me to no end that every time I thought I had a leg up on him he would come to me the next day with another map that would set the new standard for how forge maps could look in that game. But as much as I hated being 2nd I loved having someone better than me because I knew it would drive me to keep getting better.

    Fast forward a month or so and I hear about TeamBeyond. Now I knew of the mlgpro forums and The Halo Council but I had been absent for 2 Halo games, I didn't realize they transitioned to yet another forum. I make an account, see a lot of CE elitism, and make a post explaining why I thought Halo CE was the worst Halo with the worst maps (I thought Halo 3 was the best at the time). After about a day of talking to Cursed Lemon I had an epiphany and saw the light. Halo CE was given to us by the Gods and is the greatest console game ever made and this is the opinion I hold to this day.

    With this epiphany came a radical shift in the way I design my maps. I had been okay up until this point but I swear I had an actual dream of a map the next day, so I sat down to grind it out over the next week. I remember laying out a blockout of the map very quickly to show Given and Kurismic this radical idea I had. Needless to say, they just sort of looked at me and went "...uhhh... I don't get it but okay."

    A week later Trinity was made. First draft with no geometry changes ever made. If you look through my maps in H2A or even Halo 3, they were fairly standard. They looked like the kind of maps I love to **** on nowadays for being safe and unoriginal, but Trinity changed all of this.

    [​IMG]

    Not only did it mark a drastic change in how I design maps but visually it only looked as good as it did because I had Given to push me as hard as he did. That was effectively my last map in H2A because I knew there was no way I could top it, but I did play a small role in helping Given with Olympus; which was undoubtedly the best looking map in H2A because of his talented hand. It also was made out of the most performance intensive objects in that forge - Metal, rocks, and terrain. Yet it didn't have any performance issues. Some drama came out around this time with Fated and Duck and lead to what I still believe cheated Given out of winning the MYM 1 Flag contest at the time but that's neither here nor there. The whole "Halo 3" elitist notion didn't last long but there was a strange stigma that surfaced around metal maps at the time that I will never understand. Which was only made more frustrating when all these people came around to tell me that Given and I had the best looking maps, but only several months after Halo 5 came out. Needless to say, **** everyone who hated on metal maps during H2A. And thank you Given for driving me to be the best I can be.


    Now Halo 5 comes out. I created Legion as a successor to Trinity because I felt like I could make the design even more flexible. Which I did, but not without some of the same tension that Trinity faced. Now I didn't specifically make Legion for the 2v2 contest because I knew the judges wouldn't see the map for what it really was. And at first not many people did. The first 5 or 6 tests were some of the worst I've ever played and I couldn't figure out why. Just looking at the design, it should've been flawless. Everything was punishing, had counters, yet it wasn't playing like that. I'll never forget joining a random party and hearing fated say " I heard your 2v2 map plays BTB as well" joking about how large it was.

    This is what I believe separates a good designer from a great one. The ability to look at a map and know exactly how it will play out despite every testing session saying otherwise. Eventually after a few weeks of focus testing the map with a small group it began to play exactly how I thought it would. And now a year later more and more people come to me and say they enjoy the map more and more with every test. I believe Legion is still the most aggressive 2v2 map in Halo 5, and to this day it is still the very first draft of the map without a single change made. Once I saw that my intuition was good enough to see past surface level tests I began to get even more ambitious with my designs. But I was still frustrated because I knew I could do better. Legion looked okay at best, but there were a LOT of better looking maps at the time. I remember being frustrated seeing the wild success Shurima held because I believed the map played fairly boring and unimaginative; yet Demption had a knack and picked up on Halo 5 forge much quicker than most people and reaped the rewards because of it. Given took some time to catch on to Halo 5 but once he got rolling he proved once again why he has the reputation he has. I tried my hand shortly at a human themed map just so I could 1-up Hazard, but Given saw my attempt and pretty much immediately blew it out of the water with Loading Zone. WyvernZu's lighting on the crypt pushed the envelope even further.

    So here I was nearly half a year into forge with a single completed 2v2 map with amateur visuals and a half baked reputation. And I understand that popularity of a map isn't the end all, but as any forger that puts time into their creations we can all understand how disheartening it is when work gets walked over. And even if I had the skill to BE the best forger, I had no work to back that claim. Needless to say I was not happy with my work up until that point.

    So then came Oblivion.



    I spent more time designing and arting that map than any other project I've ever worked on. For months I spent hours a day just shifting the rock pillars in such a way to perfect every line of sight. Every principle I've come to enforce in the past needed to be there as well as more. It needed to be flexible, aggressive, immersive, punishing, among other things. I went out and rented a book on lighting to ensure the map could be everything it needed to be.

    Needless to say, I consider it my best map to this day. It was finally the project that I felt lived up to what I knew I was capable of. And despite some criticism it's received here (some fair, some not) it is still one of the top "liked" maps in the file browser and had an overwhelmingly positive reaction. I never want to make a map that I can't say is my absolute best project thus far; because if it's not my best map then that just means I'm not improving as a designer. And while my upcoming map Arcanum certainly doesn't share the layout intricacies that Oblivion does, I can promise that there's absolutely nothing else out there like it right now and I can't wait to share it and hopefully raise the bar for forge.

    I wanted to post this thread for a few reasons. First of all: Our forge community is only as good as we are collectively. If everyone were to forge in a bubble we would be so far behind standards. I am so grateful for people like Given that constantly push the visual standard of what maps should look like. People like wyvern who constantly find tricks around the forge bullshit. People like career who are relatively unknown but still make awesome designs. People like xandrith who started with Goldleaf and ended with one of the best 2v2 maps in the game.
    Whether or not you realize it, everything you see makes you better, just by looking at it. Always surround yourself with better and more talented people than yourself and see how far you can go.

    Another thing. Thank you to the forgers that are still around pumping out content because they're doing what they love. Level design is one of the few things I can think of that requires so much of both sides of your brain. Even before a single dab of art is added to a blockout, the very way paths connect is extremely artistic. Coming up with unusual sight lines is artistic. The whole creation process appeals to that so much it's no wonder so many forgers are musicians and artists as well. And balancing maps might as well be solving a math problem, or at least that's what it feels like. Changing the height of a single platform often affects so many other things it's like trying to solve a 6 variable math problem. If you're an excellent level designer than that means you've probably got a great head on you.

    I wanted to thank the people who have supported me and been fans of my work over the past decade. It's because of positive reception that I even continued to forge to the amount I did, and eventually land a job as a level designer at one of the biggest AAA studios in the world without a drop of industry experience. In fact Oblivion was the map that caught their eye lmao . I would be in a very different social and even fiscal situation right now if it weren't for that so I can safely say that forge has actually changed my life. So thank you all of you for that.

    And if you're not planning on working in the industry, there's nothing wrong with creating badass levels and exercising your brain. It's a great hobby.

    Thank you Goat for opening my eyes so much towards something as simple as color palettes and framing and all these other artistic practices that I wouldve never even given a second thought. You're a much better designer than you give yourself credit for.

    Thank you to Kurismic for always being a good friend.

    And **** you to Purely and xzamples for actually being genuine douchebags. I actually had never said a mean thing to Purely in my life until his insecurities took over and felt the need to essentially attack anything that wasn't his own. So yeah you can go **** yourself until you make a map that doesn't look exactly like every other map you've made.


    But yeah that's about it. I started my new job a few days ago so I just felt like this thread was the right thing to do. Thanks again for everyone who's influenced me in any way over the years :) see you guys around.
     
  2. Xandrith

    Xandrith Promethean
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    I finished reading and realized that these are my only two mentions.

    "**** everyone who hated on metal maps during H2A"

    "People like xandrith who started with Goldleaf"


    [​IMG]
     
    #2 Xandrith, Apr 9, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2017
  3. xzamplez

    xzamplez Ancient
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    This "letter to Forgehub" felt much more like bragging and self-validation that an attempt to inspire the community with your story. And only you would end a thread like this on such a bitter note.

    The thing I love about map design: It's subjective. So your goal of being the best is only as good as your ego. Which is at an all time high, so I understand now why you feel so proud of Oblivion, to the point that you can't see its flaws.
     
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  4. CaptainDireWolf

    CaptainDireWolf Forger of the Wild
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    It's always a shame to see forgers bash each other over nonsense considering this is just a game. I wish you hadn't ended the letter with such bitterness. Just as a note though, letters like these tend to show that halo elitism continues to this day.

    In an ideal world, I wish there was someway to facilitate more coforging between people with different skill sets and levels in order to help others get better. We all want to be the best. Everyone here is competitive. We play halo for gods sake, which is built on competition.
     
  5. MultiLockOn

    MultiLockOn Ancient
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    Hey I said you ended on one of the best maps in the game :)

    Then your reading comprehension sucks as much as your maps. Wasn't supposed to inspire anyone, the first two sentences said I want to tell my story and thank some people.

    Whenever someone ends an argument with "well that's just your opinion/that's subjective!!!" It's my heads up that they don't know what they're talking about. Bye kiddo.

    That definitely all makes sense. I think the more forge improves towards an actual editor the more the workload will have to be split between dedicated artists and dedicated designers
     
  6. BodeyBode

    BodeyBode Ancient

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  7. a Chunk

    a Chunk Blockout Artist
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    I really admire your growth as a designer, and that growth has been obvious since you released Trinity, so it's cool to hear that the growth aligned with your 'epiphany'. Oblivion doesn't really match up with the type of gameplay I personally prefer, but the quality of it is undeniable. It's a great map, and you should be proud of it. Stop being upset if other people disagree. They have a right to their preferences and opinions, even if they're wrong.

    I agree wholeheartedly on the community aspects you touched on. I've always made it a habit to look at lots of maps, often sacrificing time I could use to work on my own projects, and it's totally worth it. We learn and grow according to the new thoughts/ideas we're exposed to. I encourage everyone to expose themselves to as much level design/forge content as possible. I'm going to personally make an effort to share what I'm working on more often and seek out feedback on various design and art aspects I may be struggling with. I've been too hesitant to share my WIP's and the thought processes I'm using as I build them, and seek outside opinions. A little more openness would probably lead to some good, valuable discussion for everyone, helping all of us improve.

    One caveat I'd add to your post, not so much directed at you as it is just a general comment, is to be willing to work on projects/concepts that are inferior to your previous work. Greatness requires risk taking. I wouldn't want anyone to read your post and interpret it to mean that they shouldn't experiment with ideas that may be total ****. Great maps are often built off the failures of terrible ones. I'd almost go as far as saying that a willingness to fail and make something that's total **** is a prerequisite for making something great. I think what you're suggesting is that people not be satisfied with something that's 'good', but to push themselves to greatness. I agree.

    Congratulations again on the new job. I think it's amazing that something you built in forge led directly to getting hired. Teach those noobs you'll be working with a thing or two about level design please.

    P.S. COD sucks
     
  8. MultiLockOn

    MultiLockOn Ancient
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    You're the man chunk.

    I should also mention that I have a LOT of incompleted or even completed maps that I just don't share. So I really only publish what I think is an improvement. There's a lot of crazy **** on my hard drive though lol
     
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  9. MULLERTJE

    MULLERTJE ROGUE
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    I know it's a very different game but maybe you can make a map based on a Halo map and blow their minds over there.
     
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  10. a Chunk

    a Chunk Blockout Artist
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    Question... So after having your eyes opened to the greatness of CE, what's your general opinion on H3? Has it changed significantly, or do you still consider it a great game (gameplay-wise)?
     
  11. Given To Fly

    Given To Fly MP Level Designer
    343 Industries

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    I loved this post so much. Not only cause you were praising me, but I found it pretty ironic as well. See, I never stopped forging since H3, I was there day in and day out for Reach and H4, but I was essentially alone in the process the whole time. My buddy and the legend, @Urban Myth was there with me for a while, but he faded out of the scene in Reach. He came back for a bit in H4, but again disappeared. Now because I had continued to forge, I had been practicing my skill the whole time, the only problem is that there was never anybody there to push me. Then one day I joined the Vault of Glass raid with some familiar gamertag i hadn't seen since Halo 3. A dusty gamertag on my friends list. Thank god it was still there. Not only did I get to experience Destiny the way it was meant to be played, but I gained one of the best friends I have ever made, MultiLockOn.

    We were both Halo nerds, so obviously we got MCC and were ready to jostle our thumbsticks in H2A forge. I immediately looked at all the pieces in the game to figure out what I liked and disliked. turned out I pretty much only liked 3 objects. Walkway Covers, Teleporter frames, and doors. Funny enough. People tried to tell me what I was doing was wrong. I was "limiting myself" extremely, and I said, "you're stupid". So I experimented with those 3 objects for hours, and realized I had more potential in those 3 objects, than most forgers with an entire pallet. Needless to say, I gained a bit of a personal ego. Though I don't feel I ever let it show. But if I did, oh well. I was still right lmao.

    Then me and Multi started a co-forge, and it was the absolute shittiest thing I'm embarrassed to remember. It had a sandbag statue, like... what lol Anyway we moved past that pretty quick, and worked on individual projects to sharpen our minds. Then we came together again, and made "Memorium" The only H2A map to ever be featured by Team Beyond.


    I'm proud of that map, but when I look at the past, I can see mistakes, and they bug me. Either way, that was a fun project to do with Multi, and I'm happy we did it. I find it funny that I pushed Multi to do better, because it is certainly the opposite as of now. Now I'm pissed off that I'm second fiddle to him, and I try to at least catch up when I do forge. But at the same time, it is great. He's the driving force behind anything I make now, and since the beginning of H5, it has been nothing but healthy competition, and I couldn't have loved it more. I'm so proud of where I am now compared to before we became friends. I've grown so much, and it is all because I'm being pushed further and further.

    Now he's the real deal, and I couldn't be more jealous of that. He's inspiring me to get hired, however it may be. I HAVE to be better than him, even though I'm not sure if it is possible at this point. I'll still try. Might fail, but it gives me that rush I have craved since H3 to make badass content. I'm looking at designing for different games now, which is a healthy step forward, but the hard part is getting your foot in the door. Hopefully, I'm making the right choices.

    I helped him work on Arcanum recently, but it's pretty much all him. I would LOVE to make a true collaboration in the near future, but I'm sure he'll be pretty busy for a while. Like I said, I loved the OP. I have a ton of people to thank over the years too, but most of them have taken a step back from Halo, which is understandable..

    Anyway, the point is, I'm extremely proud of Multi, as well as myself, and I can't wait to see where we go from here!

     
  12. Xandrith

    Xandrith Promethean
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    I knew Oblivion was gonna be your best map as soon as I saw the hydra ramp.

    By the way, do you remember what map you were working on when you started Oblivion? I know you had another project going, we played some doom beta, and you instantly mad the middle path.
     
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  13. MultiLockOn

    MultiLockOn Ancient
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    Still a beautiful and incredible game from the game design to the programming to the art. Just hard to compete with the pure skill based balance of CE.

    Only map to *EVER be featured by Beyond, not just H2A.

    I don't? Refresh my memory.

    I do remember completely redesigning Oblivion early on when you told me you should be able to shoot people through the middle pillars, at the time those were the very edge of the map. That was all you lol
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 9, 2017 ---
    You can expect a lot of my principles to transfer over. Meaning the more aggressive player is going to be rewarded, so get ready for some run n gun lol. I'm doing some cool things with vertically too. Which is way more interesting in cod when you actually have fall damage and can't change directions 10x in air like h5.
     
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  14. SaltyKoala

    SaltyKoala Ancient
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    Oblivion is dog. Shire is by far multis best map. Git gud skrubs
     
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  15. BodeyBode

    BodeyBode Ancient

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    oblivion and legion are breakable! Rewards going up in kills and hiding. Clearly bad map design
     
  16. a Chunk

    a Chunk Blockout Artist
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    I think that was around the time you were hyping up the fact that 'metal maps' were coming back. So, it probably sucked. :p
     
  17. Xandrith

    Xandrith Promethean
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    Oh yeah haha I remember that. I'm glad you added that side because hydra is my favorite spot on any map
     
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  18. MultiLockOn

    MultiLockOn Ancient
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    Have you ever even played on Oblivion to tell me what those flaws are?

    And don't lie because I just looked at your game history through last October when I posted the map and it says you've never been on it.
     
    #18 MultiLockOn, Apr 9, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2017
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  19. S0UL FLAME

    S0UL FLAME Mythic
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    ****, I'm always late to one of these things.

    Multi, ever since I met you, I've been thinking "Man this guy is ballin'." You've got a genuine gift that other people would kill to have, and the fact that you're gonna be using that gift at an actual job is awesome. Keep being baller, mah man.
     
  20. purely fat

    purely fat The Fattest Forger
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    It is not what you said to me. It is what you said to others and about others.. The fact that you still think it is insecurity shows how much of genuine douchebag you are and how ****ing blind of a human being you are. In fact this entire thread shows how much of genuine douchebag you are. LMAO
    Let me know how everything goes when they let you go from your internship. After they realize you can't do anything to the level they think you can.

    P.S. Other people have had an encounter with gameplay I was talking about on Oblivion Mr. I can't handle feedback from anyone because my ego is so delicate and needs to be fed to the point where I make a thread and talk about myself and the 5 mediocre playing maps I've made. You are so delusional and you and your **** boys just continue to **** ride each other. Your opinions on maps are almost completely based on your opinion of the person and how much they suck you off.

    You are a joke.

    Now watch as you ignore the majority of what I said to just pick on little things. To show you have an argument.

    You are a little ******. Go have choke sex with Given again.
     
    #20 purely fat, Apr 10, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2017
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