I don't even know if we agree or disagree, lol. I mean, of course people that are designing maps for traditional gameplay should be trying to build a map that's playable at the highest levels. I don't think everyone should be able to look at a map and know what flaws are going to be the most exploitable at high levels of play though. I certainly can't make that distinction all the time. Sometimes things are obvious to me, other times they aren't. It definitely doesn't help that I'm terrible at Halo. I completely disagree that there's not a Halo intelligence factor. I personally put virtually no thought into a lot of the things that are fundamental knowledge to high level players. This is a big part of the reason why I sometimes overlook the impact of obvious flaws. It's not that I don't recognize the flaws, I just sometimes don't have any clue about how large of an impact they might have until I see them being exploited. Being more skilled than most, I think you don't even recognize the fact that you have a higher Halo intelligence than 95% of players, and that a lot of what's second nature and obvious to you isn't even a blip on the radar of the majority of players and forgers.
I don't believe people are exploiting the map to a detrimental level. They are more or less playing it the way its intended to play. Port 66 doesnt want to do anything, it does exactly what I want it to do at the level its being played at. Have you watched game film yet or are you believing everything being spoonfed to you by the naysayers?? The map is/has been playing the way I intended it to play. People aren't exploiting it, they are doing what I wanted and everytime I watch game film, the ENITRE map is used throught each match. Players cycle from the high positions to the low position, players use garden to MASSIVE advantages and gain control of plasma caster and brute plasma rifle. Your telling me thats not worth grabbing? That's a joke. The strongholds cycle multiple times and most stronghold matches end in a very close score. So what the issue? The issue is that the map doesn't adhere to the play style preference of certain people, certain people that have never even made ONE good 4v4 map lol and due to this they claim its not a good design. If you claim something, provide GAMEPLAY film to prove it. What a select few are doing is making assumptions about the map and complaning about things that MIGHT occur with the top 5% of play and treating those assumptions as facts, "facts" that have YET to be proven by gameplay film. I was told last night that a map Is "bad" for certian gametypes if it doesn't hold up under the highest level of play. I 100% disagree with this philosophy and I think following it we would lose many iconic halo maps that may not of played the best for slayer or other gamemodes at the top 5%. It ELIMINATES a huge portion of potential maps that can be enjoyed simply because they don't make the best choice for Tourney style 4v4 play. I am going to pursue high level teams to play the map and I am going to see what happens. Its extremely beneficial to me as a designer to watch that gameplay film. If it doesn't hold up, I won't hold on. I need this for my own peace of mind, dont expect or ask you to understand.
salty i have many friends that are champs save yourself the money bruhhhh edit: my friend just went and competed at the last hcs event, i will talk to him for you
The issues is what is precived as a "flaw" may very greatly depending on the designer you ask. Some may see certain design atributes you consider flaws, as beneficial and vice versa. Its hard to believe other people can enjoy Halo in a different way then you, but believe me, there are many that do. People are creatures of opinion and not to burst your bubble but not all of those have to align with yours. If I take a look at the 3 maps you have in your sig, I see all the maps follow a very similar design theory. Your best map IMO is oblivion, but if I were to ask J2H or King Nick about "flaws" the map has. They would be quick to tell me the pool-o-porters or the unpredictablity of nades on the terrain portions. Are these concerte flaws or are the flaws in the opinions of those individuals?
I played Port a while ago and I've flown around it enough times to see where players might be inclined to exploit it. You've done a great job to remove some of the corners, but I think in a matchmaking environment, you will have more spiders on your map sitting in those corners than mine. I'm not suggesting that you redesign the core of the map to prevent that because you will lose the map's charm in the process. All I'm saying is that you want people to throw bodies through these hallways and I just don't see that happening because of how impractical it is. The whole map will absolutely be used because there is no wasted space on it, but I don't feel like the weapon and objective placement encourages that playstyle. I don't think anything on Port is worth grabbing other than the Plasma Caster. The Brute Plasma Rifle is not a power weapon just because it counters the Overshield and does slightly more CQB damage than the AR. If you put Camo on the map (and in Garden where it would actually belong to the lower team), that would be a completely different story.
I will still offer them money. What I'm looking for is about 8 games on the map from a group of 2 teams of 4. Hopefully we can talk soon, I'll be on tmmrw
I really enjoyed the 2v2 contest from start to finish. Seeing everyone's maps come together and playing them to guess top three was awesome.
If they have an issue with the teleporter it's out of ignorance and being close minded. Strange bounces on terrain is just its nature, nothing wrong with that. See we don't even disagree on the play style. I like linear aggression, I think Narrows is one of the best maps in Halo. My concern with your map isn't out of different preferences. The problem is your execution. I offered 2 solutions towards the stagnation problem, moving the strongholds out of the already favorable positions (duh) and unblocking the rear spawns so the map becomes a little more 3 dimensional. Neither of those compromise the play style of the map or change the controlled aggression, and I'm sure there's an infinite number more ideas that could fit in just nicely. I've made huge efforts towards pushing unorthodox play styles, I have an entire video about it for Christ sake. So acting as if I'm untolerant towards this is silly. Also the nature of opinion means Jack **** to me. The objective traits of any game is going to dictate how well it plays a certain style, the corner hugging nade spamming funnel gameplay is possibly Halos weakest. Subjective nature doesn't mean everything is suddenly okay so I think we can be reasonable here and assume that SOME things might play better in some games than others. That's a fair assumption. Having the two most valuable points on the map even FURTHER enforced by the two objectives you need to hold doesn't make sense. You're just ensuring that Strongholds mimics slayer, and frankly the only reason anyone will move is because they're racing against the clock. You won't see that in a kill oriented game mode. Also just wanted to mention that absolutely none of my maps are like each other (except trinity and legion because it was literally supposed to be a sequel). Show someone trinity/legion, then Shire, then Oblivion. Then ask them if they look similar. I've taken great care to ensure I don't have a "style". 1: I've made plenty of 4v4 maps. Just not in H5 2. I never said that
Stalemate: Updated the death pit to a life pit, and I'm narrowing the two main open areas. Also, the buildings are getting interiors.
In sum, thanks for taking the time to respond. If I ever get that high level gameplay on the map I'd love to watch it with you regardless of the direction it goes in. Im sure we will both get a good laugh and one of us a "I told you so out of it.". I will likely make a multi version of port 66. I'm not a retard and am competent enough to know exactly what I'd need to due to remove peoples complaints. I just don't see myself enjoying the map as much if I conformed to those complaints entirely as some of those " complaints " are exactly what I enjoy about the map. (Responses in bold in the quote)
I'm sure you are aware that if you're building for Matchmaking, you will eventually have to compromise on things you enjoy to appeal to a wider audience. Raising strongholds, using weapon pads instead of floating weapons, etc. This is why I gave up on Matchmaking. 343's matchmaking parameters are retarded and I will not sacrifice my artistic vision to pander to them.
The ironic thing is that the map may be held back for how it may play with the top 5% of the halo 5 player base and not for how its playing for the other 95%. I'm honestly over the map and I'm done trying to force my vision on others. If you like it great, if you don't awesome. Still going to be getting that high level play testing tho. It will def teach me a lesson and I'm prepared to be humbled
Then your point is wrong lol I have tons of gameplay film to prove it. Multi is mainly concerned with what he believes will happen when played at a extremely high level. I'm sure he has his concerns for how its playing now in the very limited play tests he had on the map but the film didn't support the " problems" he claimed the map to have. He said it was way to easy to keep a team in garden but then the match ends in a very very close score with blue team losing because they decided to push blue stonghold instead of just keeping cafe and garden which was making them win.... You wanna watch it with me tmmrw?
I mean if i'm wrong then it doesn't matter to me either way. Personally, Port 66 is the least interesting map you've played in this game to me and I wish you didn't delete everything else only to come back and worry about a map you couldn't care less about a month ago.