Forgers vs Framerate: How to Tackle Framerate Issues

Discussion in 'Articles' started by Ascend Hyperion, Jan 29, 2017.

By Ascend Hyperion on Jan 29, 2017 at 9:23 PM
  1. Ascend Hyperion

    Ascend Hyperion The Homeslice
    Staff Member Forge Critic

    Messages:
    1,099
    Likes Received:
    3,062
    IMG_2238.JPG

    Halo 5 Forge presented us with an unprecedented level of enhanced customization options. Fog density, dynamic lighting, coloring objects, applying textures. Things we couldn't manipulate in the past are now under our precise control. We also have 1600 objects to use at our disposal, which raised our ceiling and increased the threshold for our levels of curiosity and ambition. While we cut our cloth, we want to ensure that we're good tailors because sometimes we leave the sleeves too long or the waist too tight. If you're experiencing performance issues on your map, we'd like to help guide you to alleviate them.

    Framerate Issues
    (Insert flash of lightning)

    Everyone who has played Halo 5 over the past few month has encountered framerate issues at least once. Whether it be first hand through trouble with performance drops on maps or through interaction in custom games. It is uncertain whether or not these issues will be resolved at some point and it is in our best interest to handle them the best we can for the time being.

    If you're having performance issues on your map then you've come to the right place! We would like to inform you on thoroughly tested causes of performance loss as well as helping you to alleviate it. I cannot guarantee your issues will be resolved each time. However, by overwhelming majority, the fixes and methods suggested in this article so results.

    If by the end of this piece, you have questions or are unsatisfied, please feel free to share because it is an important part of dealing with this obstacle.

    Before we start...

    There are some important things to keep in mind as we go forward. Unfortunately, this is not a cut and dry issue. There are several, very uncontrollable aspects that go into the rise of framerate issues and I'll highlight some of the tested and agreed upon ones now.

    - Framerate issues are not universal among players. One players can see drops and another player may not.

    - There is no easy fix. Resolving framerate issues can be a long tedious process of trial and error. Be prepared to put in some work.

    - Not all the issues and solutions here are set in stone. I've done my best to build this article based off of well tested, agreed upon cause and effect. That means there is still room for other issues to arise of for solutions to fail.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    What Causes Framerate Issues
    There are a variety of situations that can result in framerate issues (framedrop). Long story short, the performance of the game decreases and the frames-per-second drops in a typically very noticeable way. This can sometimes be confused for lag but is not internet connection related at all. There is also very strong evidence that framedrops can occur at any point in a build, but most often they tend to be related with piece count/ piece usage.

    Most often, drops occur when a map approaches a piece count of 1400. However, drops have been noted to occur at even lower counts and sometimes even around 1200. Like mentioned before there are several things that go into this.

    I'll often use the phrase "too many". This doesn't define a singular number because of how unpredictable the issues can be. Typically, "too many" will imply several hundred pieces within a certain area, roughly a 256x256 unit space.

    I'll list the well known and tested causes of framedrop below:

    - Too many pieces being in a compact area. This is noted to be an issue around 1100-1200 pieces. Once you pass 1400 objects, you are well within the threshold for framedrop based solely the total object count, regardless of whether or not they are in a compact area. The probability of these issues will be escalated by the amount of high polygon and large natural objects on the map.

    - Too many complex polygon items, ie. accents, props etc in one spot and/or overall.

    - Too many large natural pieces being in view at once.

    - Too many trees/foliage pieces being on screen at once.

    - The large patches of grass are well known to cause issues.

    - Too many lights being in one spot, interacting with each other, chiefly large area lights. This is noted to occur starting around 16 large interacting lights.

    -Too many lights being cast onto glass. This worsens with the amount of glass and the amount of lights. This seems to vary depending on the canvas.

    - Too much glass being on the screen at once is known to cause issues.

    - Several glass items phasing into other glass can cause issues.

    - Too many FX being in one spot. Most often, the FX will begin to deteriorate in quality as well and in some cases, the FX will stop working.

    - An object on normal physics that cannot fully return to it's original position can cause issues potentially but this is most often unpredictable.

    - When several, normal physics objects are moved from their spots in a way that forces them to interact with other normal physics objects, framedrop can occur until the objects settle out.

    - Grouped/Welded items with high item counts (150+ roughly) can cause issues when interacted with in Forge. In extreme cases, they can cause continuous drops outside of Forge.

    - On Tidal, high object count maps (1200+) that are close to and/or are interacting with the water are noted to experience issues prematurely.

    - It is believed that the high intensity weather effects ie. Snow, Rain, Dust, etc can cause drops on high item count maps (1100+).


    Other Noted Performance Issues

    This is a short list of performance issues that can be experienced that may not directly result in framerate issues, but that are still good to keep in mind.

    - Grouped/Welded objects will often fail to cast
    permanent/detailed shadows, causing a flickering shadow effect. This can be fixed by simply ungrouping the object and baking your light again.

    - On Depths, the lightmap increases extremely quickly. Most objects will contribute 1%+ to lightmap with the exception of some primitive:simples and other scattered objects. On that same note, lightbake has very little effect on objects on Depths and you can disable lightbake on almost all pieces with no visible change in shading/lighting.

    - On Depths, the draw distance on lights is dramatically reduced.

    - On Tidal, the "Stormy" skybox settings is noted to have a major issue. When the lightning on the skybox flashes, some objects can become brightly illuminated for extended periods of time. This is noted to resolve itself over time, but seemingly only if the object isn't actively in sight.

    - On Tidal, there are scattered spots where the lighting is broken and a small spot of permanent light is visible regardless of the time of day or cast shadows.

    - On Alpine, there are pockets where the lighting is broken and objects become extremely dark, regardless of time of day or cast shadows.

    - On Barrens, the game seems to reject changes to the near-fog when using the "Duststorm" skybox setting. This includes the fog type and color.

    - On Glacier, the Out-of-bounds zones are slightly larger than the mountains they are set on. Moving an object through these spots that seem very much playable, can result in the object being placed way outside the playable area.


    How to Combat Framerate Issues
    So like I mentioned before, this isn't a cut and dry issue. I cannot guarantee anything I suggest will fix performance issues on maps. However, this is advice that I often give when asked how to tackle performance issues and by majority, these are the things that seem to work the most.

    Additionally, the suggestions below are meant to be taken more as rules of thumb when building a map. It is just as important to actively combat the issues listed above as well. Doing these two things in tandem should produce results.

    I'll list the common approaches:

    - For 4v4 (or 8 player maps), try to keep the total piece count below 1400. When you subtract invisible pieces such as lights, spawns, gamemode pieces, etc, this should put you physical item count around 1300.

    - For 8v8 (or 16 player maps), try to keep your piece count below 1300. When you subtract invisible pieces (see above), this should put your physical piece count around 1200. Because these maps are typically larger than 8 player maps, there is going to be a strong possibility that larger more detailed pieces will be on the screen at once.

    - Be savvy with your lighting. Avoid layering too many lights in one place to do a job one light could do.

    - Use Primitive:Simple pieces if and where you can. These pieces are super easy on the performance of the game. A map built primarily of Primitive:Simples can actually reach an object count of 1400+ with no issues in majority. These pieces are also extremely easy on the lightmap.

    - Avoid using a large amount of foliage in one spot, especially the large grass patches. In fact, the grass is almost like directly asking for issues.

    - Be mindful of the sightlines on your map. If a player can reach a point where they can see the greater majority of the map at once, they could experience isolated framedrops. This seems to be dictated by the 180-270 degree angle the player POV can achieve. This makes the corners/opposite sides of the map most
    vulnerable to this issue.

    - Avoid having many detailed pieces in a compact area. Chiefly I'm referring to Accent pieces.

    Things to Keep in Mind Moving Forward
    For the third time, framerate issues are not simple. Thus dealing with them is not simple. There are a couple things you've got to ask yourself when working on a map.

    What do you want to do with that map?

    Is this just a casual build meant for relaxed play with friends or even customs browser players? If so, you may not have to work so hard to resolve these issues. In fact it is solely up to you and your friends. Is it intended to be a serious project that you wish to hopefully propel into matchmaking? If so, you're going to have to take steps to maximize the performance of your map. It is a requisite and it'll be on you to meet it.

    Framerate issues typically aren't universal between players. If you want to get a gauge of whether or not your map has issues, bring a variety of players into the map and ask if they noticed performance issues. You'll have to ask yourself if one persons performance is more valuable than another's as well as what you are willing to make changes as the author to resolve any issues that arise.

    I wish you luck fellow forgers. This is a major hurdle to overcome in Halo 5 forge and you are not alone in your battle against it. Use this as a resource to exchange findings, ideas and theories. Don't be afraid to ask questions either.
     
    #1 Ascend Hyperion, Jan 29, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 31, 2017
Tags: this article has not been tagged

Comments

Discussion in 'Articles' started by Ascend Hyperion, Jan 29, 2017.

    1. MultiLockOn
      MultiLockOn
      You're pulling things out of your ass here.

      Maps that performed perfectly before the updates are now having issues. Performance and rendering has definitely gotten worse.


      My biggest pet peeve is when people argue about things they have no clue about.
      Goat likes this.
    2. purely fat
      purely fat
      Well, I just got an interesting square into round hole idea reading this discussion.
    3. Goat
      Goat
      So I think Barrens is broken. I've run into a few issues on this canvas:

      • At 1400 objects, Forge lags hard. Grenades are thrown at half speed and take twice as long to explode. Look like they're lagging. Deleting point lights and chroma box didn't help.
      • Also at high object counts, objects start to disappear when they are spawned. Like if you spawn a group and move it around, pieces of it will just vanish.
      I don't know if it's specific to this canvas or if my file is just glitched.

      edit: the grenade thing doesn't happen in custom games
      Last edited: Feb 1, 2017
    4. Goat
      Goat
      They messed up the performance game-wide when they changed the way level of detail over distance is rendered to accommodate warzone firefight. Forge was the most affected by this because Forge maps do not have compiling of unused polygons that are not seen by the player.
      SmoknBrlz64 likes this.
    5. Agent Zero85
      Agent Zero85
      Well in my experience, all of my maps pre update were just fine. That is what i based my information on. But anyways i'll leave this here...

      [​IMG]
    6. ExTerrestr1al
      ExTerrestr1al
      i'm curious, were the maps that performed well and then suddenly sufferend, updated to use any of the new stuff from the updates, such as adding overlays to existing blocks, etc.? Or, were the affected maps not touched at all, and hence a pure comparison of apples to apples?
      (just curious, because I do not know)
    7. SmoknBrlz64
      SmoknBrlz64
      Well this explains a lot. I had a hunch something like this was causing the issues. Especially since simply blocking the line of sight to large groups of objects does nothing to improve performance. Wish they'd be more public about these things instead of forcing us to guess. A lot more people in this community understand computer graphics and game design than they think.
    8. D4rkDeath
      D4rkDeath
      Almost all of my maps worked without issue before monitor's bounty... without changing them, that update dropped and at least half of my maps suffered without any changes. One of them was more or less unplayable! I love that 343 gave us what they did, but you wouldn't buy your kids broken toys for Christmas.
    9. Dunco
      Dunco
      [​IMG]
    10. ravenking91
      ravenking91
      Sad that 8v8 maps should be made with less objects than a 4v4 just to keep it from breaking.
      SmoknBrlz64 and Ascend Hyperion like this.
    11. ThisIsNotTheNSA
      ThisIsNotTheNSA
      Can I just say that the picture for this post is beautiful.
      Ascend Hyperion likes this.
    12. ExTerrestr1al
      ExTerrestr1al
      this makes me think that perhaps 343 have Forge loading all objects, even if they are not used... that would explain a performance dip after MB update... or, it's something else they changed about the game's code...
    13. MultiLockOn
      MultiLockOn
      More likely is they're keeping the texture overlays in memory. Regardless, more of the issue has to do with rendering distance
    14. Brotastic Bear
      Brotastic Bear
      what if after each item you delete it isn't really deleted? like clearing your browser history but in the back of your computers memory it still remembers
    15. Ascend Hyperion
      Ascend Hyperion
      Thanks :D I took the screenshot but @Unfound did all the nice editing.
      ThisIsNotTheNSA and Unfound like this.
    16. ExTerrestr1al
      ExTerrestr1al
      question: I have only PC Forge, and I have not yet noticed a FR drop on anything unless it was viewing the entire map from within forge and everything is visible at once. (Forge uses about 50% of my GPU)

      How should I go about forging for BOTH PC and XBONE players?

      Is the ported PC forge going to exibit the problems that XBONE players will experience, despite the fact that it is not stressing PC's memory and GPU exactly the same as it would stress the XBONE? (I assume the XBONE is not running at 50% when Halo5 is running)
    17. Preacher001
      Preacher001
      So I just need to move my water map to a non water locale, then remove all the windows, remove most of the ****tonne of lighting I've wasted countless hours on, and massively dumb down the aesthetic work that I have redone a half a dozen times. Then and only then will I be able to justify officially releasing my much overdue map.

      Wait, nope, then I still need to wait for them to fix the add screenshot and file naming bugs. Oh and lets not forget the Req pack weapon ammo count bug.

      Sadly At one point I didn't have frame rate issues but the lighting glitches were a minor concern, now the lighting glitches are pretty much gone but now there is lag.

      Does anyone else hate the way the window reflections work?
      TimeDipper likes this.
    18. SgtSlaphead
      SgtSlaphead
      If you want to build an all-interior map with good performance I strongly recommend building outside of Eden. As long as you cover the roof properly to avoid any weird light flickering into the map you are left with a clean canvas that has 0% light map. It provides a consistent light level that is much nicer for game play than the dark shadowy interiors you would naturally have on a standard forge canvas. This means you don't have to use as many lights and since the map doesn't cast any shadows, performance greatly benefits. There can be odd reflections on certain pieces so I would keep the metallic properties of objects to a minimum. You can check out Fair and Square as an example (this isn't self promotion I swear) of the smooth lighting and performance you will get out of building this way.
      Agatio likes this.
    19. Agatio
      Agatio
      Thanks for the tip. I will try that the next time I'll do an all-interior map.

      I think they should really do a new canvas meant for doing interior maps with nothing in it. It should have no terrain and no lighting at all, so you could do everything yourself. Or maybe there could be some options in that canvas for the light level: at least one pitch black and one which has a decent amount of lighting without it casting any shadows.

      They should also add bigger size variations for the simple blockers, because if you need to create huge walls of floors that have no detail in them, you have to use a lot of those small 64x64x? blocks :(
      SgtSlaphead likes this.
    20. ExTerrestr1al
      ExTerrestr1al
      Are you talking about boundaries for edges of a map? If so, try creating a scripted invis blocker and setting its boundaries to max. Then, set it to decrease health on the players who enter it by X% every sec (a small amount, that sends a clear message "DO NOT GO HERE". that would be as large and perhaps more fitting than the typical softkill boundary.
      Last edited: Feb 17, 2017

Share This Page