I don't think anyone would consciously not be aggressive or push the enemy because of an additional 5 to 10 seconds for the respawn. I do think it greatly helps the map potential given that if they're anything other than a very, very simple open box it becomes very difficult to successfully hunt down the remaining players. Even a simple 3 lane seems like it becomes a near impossible feat and rounds end in draws with evenly matched teams because that small of window NEEDS tiny maps. You can already avoid death so well in this game.

You could still have small maps with a 20 or 25 second spawn time, they wouldn't change. It would open the window to a more flexible experience I think.

I agree that 3 lanes are more difficult to make work for extermination in it's current settings. Currently, I feel that 2 lanes in general play better. I wouldn't be opposed to testing something like 18-20 second respawns but 25 feels too long.

Thinking about it, I'd like to try a version of the gametype that instead of first to 5, and 3 ties ends the game; There are 9 rounds, best out of 9 wins (game auto ends with victory for winning team once mathematically impossible to lose/tie) it's a small difference but would actually allow more rounds to end in a tie, instead of potentially ending the game in a tie after 3 rounds of ties. This would eliminate the strategy of trying to win a game via 3-ties when you're up in rounds.

example game:
1-red wins
2-tie
3-blue wins
4-blue wins
5-tie
6-tie
7-red wins
8-red wins
9-tie

in this example, as the gametype is played now the blue team would win on round 6 because they were winning 2-1 with 3 ties. This changes the way blue plays round 5, they don't have to play to win, they only have to play to tie. Because a tie would be as good as a win.

In my proposed change, red would win because the game did not end after round 6. They rally back and beat blue 3-2 with 4 ties.

I believe with this method, you would be able to keep the respawns at 15 seconds and would still help maps that tie a little more often.

Thoughts?

Some thoughts on @MultiLockOn and @BodeyBode posts.

First you can't do 18 second respawns it's not an option. Also idk a way for the game to realize someone is mathematically eliminated and end the game. Also ending a game in 3 ties is a terrible strategy and should rarely be an option on maps built for the game type. Maps that tie more often are generally not built well for the game type.

I agreee with max and the reason I originally chose 15 seconds is because anything longer felt like it took too long to respawn.. you feel out of the action and the game moves slower. The issue I had with breakout is that you could spend a minute plus waiting to respawn and that is not fun. Extermination is designed to be a fast paced game and making respawns 20 seconds would slow it down as people would build bigger maps.

Also I don't think it's fair to say 3 lane maps don't work. Some of my favorite extermination maps are 3 lanes.

I don't think the perceivable difference between waiting 15 seconds to 20 is enough to demerit what it could do for the maps. Hard to imagine that change affecting peoples perception of the gametype.

However that additional 5 to 10 seconds could do wonders for bolstering what forgers could do with their levels. I'm in the process of making an exterm map right now because i actually enjoy the gametype. It's the first time since Halo 3 forgers are actually building for a custom mode (conquest/asset) and that's awesome. But quite literally anything that's not a open box is going to send the round into a draw.

The gametype works beautifully in a tiny sandbox but even that Destiny themed mars map extermination launched with I've seen go to a draw nearly every round with evenly matched teams if one team chooses to run. And that map is MORE open than a 3 lane. 15 second windows for how long it takes to kill someone in this game in addition to how easy it is to escape isn't leaving forgers much room for creativity.

Like I said. 20 to 25 seconds on a respawn isn't going to change how people perceive the gametype, and it won't harm any of the maps already created for it. But that 33% jump in respawn time from 15 to 20 (or even 25) means a 33% more intricate map. I'd LOVE to build a map with the same footprint as the ones already made, but I'd also like to put my stamp on it and get creative with some of the geometry. Can't do that with the way the game mode currently plays and I can't imagine I'm the only one.

You can travel 100 feet in less than 3 seconds in Halo 5, and it takes like, what - 5 seconds for your thruster to come back? So accounting for travel time and cooldown, let's say you can travel about 256 feet in the span of 8-10 seconds. That leaves 5-7 seconds to see a guy and actually shoot him, and that's assuming he's standing still.

Good luck doing that on anything but a flat box.

@A 3 Legged Goat @MultiLockOn

I've played more Extermination than everyone, plenty on things that are not flat boxes, and found it can work if its forged correctly. A lot of talk about theory here when I've seen it in action.

Are these maps going to be simpler designs than 4v4 maps? Yes. You can make the respawn time one minute on a 4v4 map and people could just find a place to hide for that time. Thats the problem with bigger maps. The bigger it is the more areas for people to hide so it doesn't matter how long the respawn timer is.

I've heard claims that "its too easy to get away" or "it requires a flat box"... and if thats the case then maybe its a bad map design. I personally enjoy the game mode and I know a lot of other people do too. Some people won't and I understand that and that's fine. The struggles of forging an Extermination map vary quite drastically from the struggles forging for different game modes. I've seen maps executed well already so I know its more than possible

I don't have an issue with the 15 second respawn.

The ability to win via ties isn't an initial strategy, but one that can develop in games with teams that are well matched and more prone to tying.

Imagine a game that plays out like this
1-tie
2-red wins
3-red wins
4-tie

Now for red team, tying the game to win is not only a legitimate strategy, but the easiest way to secure a win.
Why try to win 3 more rounds when you only have to tie one?

Don't get me wrong, I love this game type, but as it is now... tying to win is a legitimate strategy. It's up to you to determine if you view that as a good or bad thing.

I don't know if what I suggested is at all possible, but it would exterminate (hah, puns) ties as a win condition.

I would prefer 20 second respawns but would be okay with 15 if the map design and game philosophy of extermination changed. I think its worth trying team(sided) spawns that only allow teams to spawn on the side of the map there initials were on (possibly with some neutral spawns in the middle) If this was standard for the gametype it might allow for more complex maps as teams could apply pressure to help predict spawns. Just food for thought as I haven't put it to the test yet.

I'll set up a version of this on my map for Wednesday testing, although I do not think mine would be the ideal map for such a modification. I too am curious about that

Spawn kill central. Take control then just sit on their side of the map and wait to kamakazi their spawns... won't be fun respawning just a warning

Could you show some pictures of Exterm maps that youre talking about? I'm only asking because the only extermination maps I have seen lack much verticality, or complex shape.
I'm interested in forging one, but have not seen many examples.

Or you could make your own settings and map and impress us with how wrong we are.

I don't know why you're getting so defensive I literally just told you I love the game mode and I think it's great forgehub is collectively pushing it. Reminds me of when everyone made conquest maps.


I also used one of the maps you launched the game mode with as an example so I'm not sure what you're trying to dismiss. It's not a hard concept and it has nothing to do with the footprint of the map so much as the density. The more geometry I want to build the more difficult it becomes to end a round. I think a small respawn buff would help not only the level potential but even the classic maps play a little more structured. That's all.

In its current state I don't think bodeys map is a suitable canadite for the sideded spawns but I think a slightly bigger more complex version of it could support this.

That's what's cool about this idea, it might allow for more complex maps. As you said yourself bodeys map in its current state (which works fine in the current setting) won't work well due to spawn killing. If teams are spawning killing, it means they are NOT having any issues finding eachother. This type of spawning helps players find eachother and will llikely facilitate larger or more segmented/complex maps. Again, pure speculation but itsl isn't worth shutting down so quickly

Just to play devils advocate, should respawning be pleasent if your team isn't there to protect you and the other team applied pressure and got your team in that bad spawning situation?

I agree, I believe that that my map would play very poorly for side specific spawns. And I stated that in my original post just in case anyone thought I was delusional enough to think it would play well.

I wouldn't mind to see someone attempt it, but I don't wish to modify someone else's map without their consent either. Hence, my volunteering.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be tried, just that Bodey's map would be a train wreck on it lol. If you build the map for that in mind then I'd say go for it. I'm a little skeptical that it will work (for a few reasons) but I want to see people try new things with Extermination (as long as its not tinkering with the game mode) and am open minded about it.

Respawning doesnt have to always be pleasant but it should not feel like a death sentence. Nothing frustrates players more than being legitimately spawn killed. (I mean people even hate being "spawn killed" when its their fault and not the spawn). You have to feel, and be, capable of coming back after being down in numbers and not that you are spawn trapped with no option but fighting (against people that likely have power weapons) instantly at spawn.

I'm not trying to be defensive or combative and I apologize if I'm coming off that way. I've been trying very hard to word things certain ways to avoid that tone but its one of the flaws of the internet, people can't read your tone lol. E

However, since the contest has already started we can't change the game mode at this point either way.

With that said I would be interested to see what you have created and try it on a 20 second respawn timer out of curiosity. The issues we had with 20 seconds to begin with were:
1. The maps we built weren't created for it so teams were rarely respawning (getting eliminated completely the first time around)
2. Maps with more geometry, or built bigger, on a 20 second respawn made it harder to get exterminations because it allowed more areas to hide out or hide behind. Looking for last man standing is the most frustrating part of the game mode if there are nooks and crannies (or interesting geometry) to hide behind.

Generally maps were ending in a draw more often OR ending so players never respawned. It took away that tug of war feeling that I feel is essential to the game mode. But maybe it was just poor map design on those trials so I'd be glad to test it out again if you have something you think works... just not as part of this contest.

for top 5 if your in Canada would it go to Canadian money or stay US

JoeAct20 was able to do that in his clue game. Once a specified player is killed, the round ends