Making a BTB Map

You could jump into MM and see what others have done...then don't do any of that cus those maps is doo doo

 

Preach!

 

Yeah, Shut up @Dunco !!!!

 

Trial and error, trial and error.

Seriously tho ask yourself what you find fun in a BTB map and look at some BTB maps you really liked from past games. Focus on vehicle pathing and player pathing and try to create interesting engagements you as a player like. If you focus on these things first, than worry about "balancing" your map, it will be fun at It's core instead of trying to make it balanced first and then trying to make it fun.

Think of the differences between a textbook and a novel. Yes a textbook is well written and will generally follow all literary rules. Bur at the end of the day, does anyone wanna read a textbook on there free time?

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 1, 2016 ---

As far as guidlenes for H5 go I would say more lazy cover, micro cover, and elevation changes that allow players to duck in and outnof cover. The HITSCAN is REAL in H5 lol

 

A lot of the time I just imagine cool locations- like looking at the smaller rock indents within a weathered cove- shape them. Manipulate them. Shape it. Imagine if players could jump from this rock to that, or walk from this ledge to that- if they cant, make a bridge. Create your space. Think of crazy geometry, don't worry how it plays, do whats interesting, what you feel could never work- and then repeat the whole process, creating more and more spaces like this until you have enough to create a full map. Throw them all together, mix it up, put them together like a puzzle. Once you like the image, create a new file and build the whole thing over again, in full. Do it again, and again, weather it until your satisfied. And then don't be. Get it tested, listen to the feedback, especially the feed back that makes you cringe and pissed, but look past your ego and the ass-holery that WILL occur in the party or feedback forums- look past what they've said to try and see what they are saying. Take their feedback and understand it in a way that feels right to you, use it in the way that you feel works right for your map- it is your map after all.

This is how I tend to go about designing things. I'm not an expert and I'm sure it's a recipe for a disaster more than it is for a lightning in a bottle situation like Scavenger. There is no right way to design a map. Do what you like, and decide whether or not you're open to mix with the interpretations of others in order to create a final result that will play well according to them and you- as long as you've managed to keep the heart of what you truly want alive throughout the process.

Or, you know, **** me, since my map is one of those aforementioned hated mm maps

 

Actually your map is one of the only good ones

 

Shots fired!

 

I think this advice leads down a slippery slope that passes the current state of the BTB MM playlist (too many maps built for a nebulous concept of fun with not enough regard from the designers or 343's MP team for maps that can hold up under the rigours of a larger population with a much wider talent pool than we find in test lobbies).
If you don't approach with balance foremost in mind then the map is unlikely to have much longevity because what's fun to the forger personally is almost guaranteed to only hit a small niche of the general population. Of course if this isn't a concern then my point isn't relevant.

I'd say get an idea of what weapons and vehicles you want to feature first and then build a map to support those, but don't tunnel vision on it so much that you end up with a map that's essentially a one-trick pony that doesn't allow for player creativity. Vehicles are kind of like power weapons; you want them balanced in such a way that they're fun and useful without being absolutely domineering. So you need to avoid massive anti-vehicle options for players off spawn while still making those options attainable without letting it snowball too much (assuming evenly skilled teams). Generally I dislike the Spartan Laser whenever a Banshee isn't involved simply because it's a hard counter to vehicles and doesn't allow for any counterplay short of "don't give the other team the laser" which ends up snowballing pretty quickly.

Look at the existing suite of maps and see what's missing if you want to do something fresh. Currently we have a ton of medium scaled CTF maps but very little on the asymmetric Strongholds front. Likewise that medium scaling means we've yet to see a well implemented Wraith (or Scorpion, but I question if the Scorpion can ever be well implemented in Halo multiplayer) or an asymmetric vehicle layout that really works well.

For aesthetics and such there are plenty of people more qualified than me, but all I can suggest is that you go for something that complements gameplay and doesn't muddy the clarity of information being presented to players.

 

Yo Mat Clan, you mind showing me a BTB map you've forged?

Here's the thing, this guy is a new forger and he isn't going to make a MM quality map his first go, thefore its more important he focus on making a map primarily for the combat and player encounters HE enjoys, this helps develop a sense of "desgin identity". It is after this stage that a desginer should shift his focus to creating a " balanced " experience, when a budding forger only worries about "balance" it stiffles creatively and can seriously harm there potential as a forger.

Beleive me, I'm not advocating for these things to not be considered but as a forger I will say it can take YEARS to get to the level where a forger can make a fun/interesting map and also a map that can withstand the rigors of MM.

 

The existing suite of maps are absolutey trash. Scavenger, Boulevard are my favorite than Fracture/Anti Freeze arr okay, although they are just large arena maps and then there is Guillotine. Those are the only ones worth the ground they are forged on. So please don't use that playlist as a mean of reference.

It also worth noting only about 10 to 15% of the population(I'd argue it to be even lower) is going to be playing at the level Mat Clan is suggesting.I mean BTB.Net is dead.

If extremely competitive and dry "balanced" maps are your thing, go play 2v2 or HCS or create your own BTB maps to use internally. The general community enjoys a more "competive" casual map suite akin to how bungie desgined there BTB maps in the past.

 

Salty, your responses read like you're taking this personally and rushing to reply. Step back and re-read the whole thread: all I've said is that "fun" is a really imprecise way to design something. As is jumping in without a clear idea of a map's purpose.

I also never said to look at the current MM suite for inspiration, but to look and see what hasn't been done yet and then try to and fill those spaces. Making an offhand comment about the quality of the MM maps is utterly irrelevant because nobody was trying to use them as a quality barometer in the first place.

Furthermore I've never suggested designing maps to play for any given level. Just to consider the fact that there are situations in which maps will be played differently depending on the quality and intent of the players at any given time. Trying to curate a map's experience too much backfires because it's simply not possible to account for the entirety of the skill spectrum and expect similar results. Thus I think it's important to focus on balancing for a fairly high level whilst not ignoring the fact that a lot of things that don't fly on that end of the spectrum can still be included because they do work on the other end (and will just go ignored by better groups where the risk/reward equation tilts in favour of excessive risk). It's simply a matter of being able identify what serves core gameplay at all levels and then to also be aware of what should be cut for introducing imbalance and what could be cut if you were being minimalist but may not need to be on the grounds that different groups of players will deal with it differently.

Essentially, using reductive design to get to the core of a map is great, but then once that's achieved you can dial it back a little and add some more flavourful stuff, which if done intelligently results in a map with wider and more long-lasting appeal for everyone.
Your last point isn't even clear as to what you're trying to say. Bungie had some hits and some misses; it's not like they struck gold every time or made something awful every time.

Anyway, this is silly. Charybdis was asking for suggestions and suggestions were made. It's his/her map at the end of the day and some borderline off-topic discussion about design philosophy from other members isn't directly helping so I'm done with this.

 

Not to hijack the post, but what would go into creating a map that suits BTB assymetric strongholds well?

 

Someone once told me that there should be six major points on the map--three strongholds positions, and then 3 more positions where you can move to two other strongholds from.

 

Mind linking me to a BTB map you've made @MATCLAN ? I'd love to learn a thing or two from your superior desgin process prowess.

 

complete and utter repetitive insanity