Do you ever consider a map finished?

Discussion in 'Halo and Forge Discussion' started by Nitro, Sep 6, 2016.

  1. Nitro

    Nitro Guilty Spark

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    This originally was going to be an off-topic question, but I felt that if I rephrased it, then it could lead into a decent discussion. Like the title states, 'Do you ever consider a map finished?', I personally do not believe a map/level is ever completed. It's one thing to getting a map from a blockout to a playable aesthetically pleasing level for something to be considered finished. But the road doesn't stop there.

    We find ourselves in a place where we know every nook and cranny, every material that is placed, and every name zone and their location. I like to think that, the levels that we make are never intended to finished. Whether the map is based off of pure symmetry or plays best because of it's asymmetric weapon balance. The maps themselves are alive. We make them so that others can enjoy them, which in turn you become one of the hardest critics and it's hard to take the rejection when others don't like your map. So what do you say to yourself, "Is the map trash?", "How can I fix a broken level?", or "What feedback is the right feedback?".

    These are the many thoughts that I have when finishing an iteration of a map. I never believe when someone tells me that their map is finished. It never is, nor it never will be. You'll end up re-forging it, move spawns and weapons, changing the angle of the slope or even renaming it because you don't want it to share the same name as another map (or like me, I am pretty bad a naming maps lol). I wonder if we can find a map that has been in development the longest. Because we all know there is someone on here that has been refining a level design since Halo 3, there has to be.

    So I'll leave you with this final question for you to comment on, have you ever really finished a map?
     
  2. TheLast Ravager

    TheLast Ravager Paradise Lost

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    Well then, just when I thought Takamikazuchi was almost done. I guess not anymore lol
     
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  3. Nitro

    Nitro Guilty Spark

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    Haha, this wasn't meant to discourage you, I hope. But I hope you see my internal thoughts when I hear that phrase. :)
     
  4. SecretSchnitzel

    SecretSchnitzel Donald Trump
    Forge Critic Senior Member

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    There will always come a time when a designer should consider a map finished and walk away from it to work on other designs. If the designer never "finishes" a map, they are trapping themselves in a box that they will never be able to escape. They seek a concept of perfection that simply can not be achieved, and become hung up on their work in a futile effort to chase the unachievable.

    Now, I'm not saying a designer can't revisit old designs and work on bringing them forward. As a map ages, issues of concern may arise from how the map is played over time as individuals learn the map better and the meta evolves. Unlike professional designers, we forgers do not have the resources to playtests our designs as extensively as they do, and consequentially some design flaws may not become apparent until much later in a map's life. Additionally, as forgers, we also have another major disadvantage: aesthetics. As forge continues to improve with each update, our ability to improve upon aesthetics increases, which can leave older maps looking extremely dated compared to what the new standard is in the community.
     
  5. Nitro

    Nitro Guilty Spark

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    Well said.
     
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  6. SecretSchnitzel

    SecretSchnitzel Donald Trump
    Forge Critic Senior Member

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    Almost everything I say (when not trolling or being an ass hat) is well said. :p
     
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  7. MATCLAN

    MATCLAN BTB.net
    Forge Critic Senior Member

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    No, but that doesn't mean that the original designer/creator is always the best person to keep the map updated.
    As a map is played hundreds to thousands of times exploits, imbalances, or a stale metagame will all begin to show up and there's no reason that such things can't be continuously polished periodically in order to keep the map at its best.

    Kind of what 343 is doing with map refreshes between seasons, but not as seemingly arbitrary.

    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. But if something can very clearly be identified as having room to improve then improve it.
     

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