I turned solo's opinion. Personal kudo's. I agree with most of this. This is what I want. If I am debating you it is merely from personal experience. I will let you know I try to break every map I play. These issues you brought I have seen throughout playing but for the most part I could find a counter playing the map. I think that camo could be where speed boost is. I just had issues with the possible combo's that could come from speed boost being in between everything but I am always one to try anything.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 20, 2016 ---

Don't do this. Make the changes for me.

That's not the only reason, when you spawnyou have no idea where you are regardless of map knowledge and when on your teammates 3rd person view, it often hard to tell where they are or headed. It should be considered if after so many matches you still aren't able to grasp it. This is probably the map that I've played the most and it still the hardest to call out and orientate myself on.

If you are actually familiar with the entire layout and still get confused when you spawn, then I would suggest "turning your brain on" like multi said

Seriously, though, I have no Interest in satisfying newcomers, or even matchmaking players. I want players to learn my maps, and that's just the way I forge.

I'm all for confusing and intricate layouts. Likewise, I detest maps that look like a clown vomited color everywhere. But I can definitely understand and in some cases agree with orientation problems on Cobalt given its colors and texture usage. It's not the only map that I can see that problem on in the current offering.

When you're already servicing orientation with geometric landmarks, color and textures, lighting becomes your next tool to use to inform the player of where they are on your map off of spawn. Perhaps lighting can be looked at if orientation continues to come up in criticism.

Alright, here's some help.

Broken bridge room or Just pillar room (We always called the big middle window the "chill out window")


Bottom mid/top mid


Top light rifle, bottom light rifle, or light rifle hall/slit widow


Snipe room to carbine, snipe room to lightrifle. Also snipe tele


Carbine room


The hallway at the other end of this picture is long hall, and the once below it is elbow


Holy **** I just realized that there are actual call out zones on the entire map JUST USE THOSE

@no god anywhere I'm down man hope my post didn't come off rude, that wasn't my intention. My user title says it all lol

Also I've said this a million times for months now. 99% of initial complaints about optic prison are about unfair starts. Just script it so the powerups don't spawn at the start of the game. In fact, I think most assyms would benefit from not having power weapons at start.

Is it even possible to script them not to spawn at start? That was the main reason I scripted the OS platform to come out of the water on Trestles because every way I tried to script the power ups they still spawned at start. So I made the ground they spawn on stay down at start. Was that fixed?

At one point, I was under the impression that power ups didn't spawn for the first 15 seconds of the match. Was that ever a thing or am I trippin?

I usually don't like delayed spawns, its very telling that a map wasn't designed to its full potential. If more thought and care was put into the entire project, this could be avoided. Sometime's you're stuck with a design that doesn't provide enough flexibility, that's when you should take notes from Goat and start tearing down walls. Build something new from the chaos, something that doesn't involve delayed spawns.

This is the usual tradition but I couldn't do it like zombie was saying. I even had to raise the timers to be longer than I would like because of the way pads work. I really think there needs to be a thread just to have a general discussion about the sandbox in 2v2's because there seems to be a large varied opinion on this. I have heard things be called useless and then be called to powerful and I have seen some who think camo too strong and others say os is too strong. With the other being okay. I think some people should take care of this.

that is just not true. just based on almost every map I have played that had this feature because most of the time they were some of the most interesting maps. if you ever would build an asym. you would learn this.

How can something based on preference not be true? If it were my map, I would spend the time to refine the design to a point where I could find a situation to avoid delayed spawning weapons or powerups. I'm not saying delayed spawning doesn't work, I just don't care for it, its lazy in my opinion.

Delayed spawning in that instance seems like a bandaid to fix poor initial spawns. Redesigning the initial spawns or repositioning pick ups would be healthier for the map as a whole.

It is making something that is different. That is the opposite of lazy. Not every map can have everything spawn on the start. Especially if it is experimentation. Some of the best 1v1's in reach had this. It is not a band aid if it is something different. GET OUT OF THE BOX!!!!!!! If you really would let something like this stop you from making something that is original. You will just keep scrapping like GOAT does and never get gameplay on the map and figure out what works about the map and what doesn't. I would not expect either of you to understand this though. To say something is a band aid without really even understanding it is my real issue. You can prefer that is not like that on your map but sometimes you have to try something like that just to see how different geometry works with different types of weapons.

I will say it might be lazy if the map is just the same old same old. Also, I just enjoy picking on you about map design War.

It's one thing to do it proactively and intentionally from the beginning, and it's another to do it "reactively" to fix a problem. That's how I interpreted it.

gotcha, and to be honest the only place I think it really has a home is 1v1 as there tends to be more experimentation there that can lead to stranger initial spawns. I still think that is not a very strong take because you could say that about any change that is reactive. What makes it a worse change than any other to fix an issue? If a player likes how a weapon works on a map but because of starting spawns or because whatever else you cannot have it spawn at start. Also if you make a geometry change to try and fix this there is a strong chance you end up ruining how the design was intended to play just to satisfy a bias. To me that is not a good idea. What do you do? Ruin the intended gameplay of the map or just have a weapon spawn later. I am for searching for different options first like different weapons but as a scrapper you can understand map design is a lot of "what ifs" and you have to ask yourself should you possibly ruin the dynamic of the map or just not have a weapon spawn at start. You don't have to like the option but it is the best option sometimes. Simple changes tend to be the best changes and it is a simple change.

I disagree. In my case I had damage boost on 1 side & OS on the other. They'd spawn in intervals of 1 minute apart to promote movement across the map. I thought it was boring to have both spawn at the same time so one team would try to get one & the other team the other. I wanted to have them fight for each every time sort of like an objective. If that is a design flaw then it's no wonder I can't make good maps anymore!

At the start of a match players are able to view the entire landscape as information on where things spawn. This is the time where players get a sense of where powerups, weapons and objective locations are (if any) before they are disturbed. This is a crucial moment for orientation and how players will memorize pickup locations on the map. Intro cams were introduced in Halo 5 to help fascilitate this introduction as well. Delay spawning disrupts our initial impressions and may be confusing for some players. Again, this is just a personal preference of mine.

Well my pillar with the Damage boost was scripted to rise up out of the water because I was trying something new & trying to be creative but you can't script or weld weapon pads so I just spawned my power ups just like 343 did in their own maps.

That is fine but if it is the best option for gameplay you should do it. It really never needs to happen in most 2v2's and 4v4's so you should not have an issue with it. Could you script it to show the weapon in the intro cam but not have it at start?