That may be the most important question you ever persue in you life. Take at the very least a few minutes to consider the following... When you boil down all the world views it comes down to two things, either Matter created mind, or mind created matter. Now if the former is true than we have nothing to worry about. When you die you simply 'Cease to exist'. However, if there is a creator; You'd better find out who it is, and what it wants. Because while you may be garunteed 60-80 some odd years (if that) here on earth, you will spend an enternity: and yes i say this litteraly, God knows where. If you are still interested lets take a step back here and dig into some Frequently Asked Questions on the topic... Q) there is no proof of God, how can i aproach this logicaly? A) Well there is a very simple formula that i can't take credit for, but realy puts things into perspective for a non beleiver. It goes like this... 1) Everything that has a begining has a cause 2) The universe had a begining 3) Therefore the universe had a cause Q) Why call this "Cause" God? Scientists Say there was litteraly nothing? A) Well they call it 'Nothing' because nobody knows. However, we can make an inferance by using some basic logic. In order for our observable universe to be caused, said cause could not possibly be bound by the laws that came forth from this cause. If this was true we would have an infinite regress and that is not logical within the laws that govern our universe. So that leaves us with a Time-less, Space-less, Material-less Cause. Essentialy an Infinite existance. Now while it is true we cannot fully comprehend this concept of infinity, we can still grasp the general idea. Now in order for our SPECIFIC universe to spawn from an infinite existance, as appose to the unlimited alternitives... Now that indicates a choice, a will, a sentient being. Just not bound by our laws of course. Q) There are countless gods people worship all over the world, which one created the universe? A) There are not millions of gods, these are only the various perspectives of individuals and what they think god is. Q) Well then which one is right? A) Now this can start to become a daunting question when you first aproach it, so again lets take a step back and asses this. We can assume that because the creator chose to create humans not only with a conciousness, but a desire to worship: that it wants to have a relationship with it's creation. You don't think you have a desire to worship? Well wether it's a famous celebrity, Music band, or material possetion, no human is above the desire to idolize somthing. And yet, they always turn out to dissapoint don't they... Now lets also assume that this creator has a way for us to learn about him. We obviously can't hear physical audible words, but... There are alot of books that claim to be this medium between creator and creation. After all, cars come with manuals right? Wouldn't it make sence that we'd have somthing to make sence of it all? The search for truth is your responsability, ignorance is not an exuse. And remember, you are gambling with your SOUL! So take it seriously Please Messege me if you would like to talk some more, and engage in meaningfull conversation on this with others it is most important
If you have goodness inside yourself, and you know how to be merciful...if there is a creator, he imbued those qualities into us. And a creator who gave us love, justice, wisdom, etc, would have the power to do what is right, or right what is wrong, and the ability to see beyond what we know. But I find the don't worry, it will all be over statement actually not comforting myself...if this is all we have, then we are most to be pitied so to speak.
Alot of these arguments boil down to somthing specific, i assume this stems from the why does god allow evil argument? I'll continue regardless it's bound to come up anyways. The easy answer is, free will. Love by definition, and just goodness in general has to be given freely. That is, not forced. Wether or not one agrees with this, it is true. A hard pill to swallow for some. But true. I can ellaborate more if neccecary. Another thing to consider, are trials, struggles, sadness, etc... A bad thing all the time? Or possibly a blessing in disguise? Ever heard of what doesn't kill you makes you stronger? Ever been abke to help another person get by because of the strengths that was a fruit of your pain? If you had a child... Would you shield them from this difficult world, only to weaken them in the end... The third answer is more biased, per my christian faith (At this point in time) But we all go through struggles, it's how you come out of it that matters
Here are some sources if anybody wants to dig deaper Uncaused, First Cause: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_argument Evidence: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshift https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmoved_mover
the entire argument revolves around this assumption, how do you even begin to prove that everything that has a beginning has a cause( note: i am reading this as reason to exist)? to make your argument convincing you're first going to need to prove this assumption. okay, if i read that is something caused it to exist, why does something existing mean some sentient being caused it? where does that sentient being come from? what caused it to exist? if you're going to argue he always has and will you can make that exact same argument for the universe itself, and, if you want to look at the science side of it there are some hypotheses for that. just going to through quantum consciousness/mind into the mix, personally i think it to be somewhat of an absurd hypothesis based on a misunderstanding of quantum physics but its amusing to explore the concept of it. my personal take is just that when there is nothing but chaos, the chaos will destroy itself and what ever survives becomes the mechanics for order, what happens when we die is the decomposition of the body and our consciousness is just an abstract biological mechanic that evolved for the purpose of survival without reason. the observations of how our mind works shows how heavily it's influenced by our subconscious which is just mindless biological instinct. what happens to our consciousness is that it merely stops working and that's it. referencing this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18408715, can't find access to the full study only article on it and the abstract.
I believe in God, but not for any of these reasons. They way I see it (as a Christian) is you either believe that Jesus was the messiah or you don't. All historians, even atheist ones, will agree that Jesus was a man who lived as a carpenter and died by crucifixion. The question now is whether or not you believe he rose from the dead. I believe he did, and therefore I believe in his bible. The Idea of trying to argue his existence (with science) is silly for the simple fact that nobody can disprove or prove Gods existence, so trying to use the "If, then" formula isn't going to get you anywhere, for either side. I see enough to know I'm blind, and that comforts me.
This is the first place in over a decade of using the internet where this debate has not only happened peacefully, yet intelligently. gg --- Double Post Merged, Jun 11, 2016 --- Well said.
well time to do some searching. personally i'm sure a person called jesus did exist, probably many of them, i just don't think the one in the bible actually existed. lets see what i can find out. edit:well i'm not turning up anything other then historians basing their assumption that jesus existed entirely on the bible being historically accurate and i can't find anything that actually shows the bible being an accurate historical account so i can only assume he didn't exist.
Granted, if you follow the Bible he was executed by Roman soldiers under the authority of Pilate, just as many others had been. With this said, finding hard evidence of Jesus of Nazareth is just as difficult as finding hard evidence of a random thief from the same time frame/area. Also, they (Jewish leadership and Roman authorities) may have tried to bury evidence of his existence in that he was a blasphemer, which could explain why he doesn't show up in very many (or any) historical records. Definitely a hard find
i would argue that someone with such importance at that time frame would be much easiser to find evidence of then some random thief. but this is history and a lot of stuff a we think we know about history is mostly pure speculation based on little to no information. historians regularly come to different results based on the same information. however, to use the bible as the basis to assume jesus exist then you have to prove the bible to be accurate and there is a lot in the bible that we can check, and see isn't historically, physically or biologically accurate. i think most of the bible is just the result of old stories being constantly exaggerated and changed then finally written down into text. so i think it's safe to assume the bible is in no way an accurate recording of history.
I look at the base systems set in place of our universe, like the beginning/middle/end spectrum, or evil/neutral/good for example. They're all set up like a wavelength, but who's to say beginnings and ends exist? If energy is only transfered from one form to another, does this wave repeat over and over again? Hell, @Overdoziz might have it right with the poop comment; our universe could be the result of some giant, unfathomable entity kicking the bucket and our universe is nothing but a bi-product of its final excrement. Also, touching upon the Jesus subject, anyone consider how eerily similar the death and rebirth of Christ is to the winter solstice?
1) There are no actual infinites that exist in our universe. Just like the fourth dimention, we cannot fully comprehend it, but we can still grasp the idea. 2) The 'who created god' arguement doesn't work, infinites don't have beginings. And make sure you read it all my friend i explained it must be personal becuase there had to be a choice in order to spawn our universe. 3) I'm aware of the free will dilema, never quite got a satisfactory answer for that. Ofcourse i belive we do have free will, and that there is order in the universe. But if we are just moist robots brought forth from chaos, how can you trust your own thoughts and reasoning? 4) Yes, scholars agree that Jesus of Nazarith existed. They agree that he lived to be 33, he was the center of much attention for his works, the author of christianity, crucified at the hand pilate. That much is confirmed, but also skeptics talk of his "parlor tricks", and other bible jesus things, they ust arn't accepted by scholars for obvious reasons There are actualy a few differant non-biblical accounts of Jesus i will get the sources for you. 5) Also the bible is in fact historicly accurate, i will have a refurance for your review --- Double Post Merged, Jun 11, 2016 --- There are lots of paralles in nature and the bible. I see this as a testiment to our creator, rather than evidence for the contrary.
There are lots of things we cannot prove 100%, what matters is the evidence that supports it. And there is alot of evidence stacked up in favor of creation. Evolution cannot be proven, it relies on evidence. (Falible, outdated evidence at that) The big bang 'Theory' has a ton of inferances, but based around ths core principle that there was at one point a begining. There is nothing wrong with having evidence to support your claims my friend
I have a hard time taking the bible seriously based solely on the fact that we have such a higher brand of morality (sources needed lol) today than we did way back then, and yet it was created as a guidebook to live your life by. At the very least give us an updated version that has Jesus' walk on watermark to show me its legit. However, I do appreciate a lot of the messages it has to offer. To me, a little advice from Socrates, knowing that I know nothing helps me take bits and pieces from all religions to shape my morality
I believe in Buddhism, that there is little meaning in whether there is a creator or not, but rather that you should strive to be the best and most balanced version of yourself that you can. It shouldn't matter if there is a god or not, just don't be a shitty person. Though, I have no real idea what happens after death.