I tell you what, going against my better judgment (lol), I'll be happy to discuss specific maps, but ONLY if requested directly by the person who submitted it. I'm not really interested in just listing off all of the symmetrical maps and then saying why they didn't end up in the top 5 or top 10. I'll say that my personal favorite amongst the symmetrical maps that were submitted was Tetrad. It definitely had the potential to make it further in the contest with some tweaks. It was far better than Luxor Station. You should also know that whatever 'ranking' a map ended up at doesn't necessarily reflect its overall quality. Sometimes better maps get cut earlier because they have one flaw that makes it obvious it won't make it to the top 10, so in an effort to optimize our testing time, we just drop it immediately. Meanwhile, there are other maps that are mediocre but don't have those obvious weaknesses, and they often end up getting additional tests just to verify that they're not fit to continue. Luxor Station definitely wasn't the best symmetrical map submitted, it just had less obvious flaws than the others. Our goal was never to rank the maps in order from 1 to 145, so those 'rankings' you heard about are pretty meaningless.
And I get that, I totally do, its just that in a tourney, a list of only one type of map would make for a **** tourney. It always has. Literally always. Longest plays different from Chill out and Damnation, that is a fact; both because of the layout and the fact it is symm. Anyways, I'm not trying to say one is better or worse than the other, we need both.
And I appreciate that mate. Just pointing this out, I only referenced Luxor Station because it's a bad map. I'd appreciate it if no one took this as me being upset it "didn't place higher" or some sort of bullshit like that.
And you're putting all asyms as one playstyle, which it isint. And then putting all the symms into another playstyle.
I'm not Chunk though so I'll post anyway. http://www.forgehub.com/maps/iris.1580/ The weapon layout did not compliment the map, meaning it either didn't impact the gameplay enough to be worth pushing for, or it was too strong. In this case, the Shotgun was too good. It was difficult to find players and get into interesting engagements. It was messy. http://www.forgehub.com/maps/pipedream.1738/ The weapon layout did not compliment the map. The pace of the games were very slow and we spent more time looking for players than fighting them. It wasn't "tactical" slow though, it was "they're on the other side of the map and I have to go all the way over there to get to them" slow. http://www.forgehub.com/maps/tetrad.1894/ It was visually unimpressive compared to other submissions and difficult to orient yourself around the map. We also felt that it lacked depth despite being very fun to play. http://www.forgehub.com/maps/luxor-station.955/ Basically the same as the above, but much less fun because more time was spent moving around the map. The concensus was basically that the encounters were dull and didn't allow much creativity. http://www.forgehub.com/maps/azoris.1506/ Way. Too. ****ing. Big. There was no reason to do anything or go anywhere (the plasma caster could easily be shrugged off) and it took half the game to get a sightline on another player. http://www.forgehub.com/maps/trestles.1855/ The bases were useless unless you were spawning there and trying to get out from the grenade spam. Most of the weapons and geometry on the map were ignored and combat flowed almost entirely to the one bridge. The Plasma Pistol noob combo across the map became the go to strategy. http://www.forgehub.com/maps/zircon.1369/ The gameplay was too linear and too slow to make up for the linearity. This means that most of the map was ignored, or that combat didn't seem to flow naturally. http://www.forgehub.com/maps/excalibur.1361/ Run to one side, die, run to the other side, die. There was a lot of crouching and a lot of sitting behind things waiting for players to show up. The gameplay, weapon layout, and sightlines were all awkward and the playspace was difficult to read. Those are the issues with the the top charting symmetric maps. Those are not all the symmetric maps, but the ones that aren't listed probably had very similar issues. The biggest thing was stimulating movement and fostering evolving gameplay, which they fell short of. With changes, some of these maps could definitely go into a doubles playlist, and I am sure there are other syms in there that have that potential too. We just weren't judging based on potential. If we were, i'm sure the results may have been different.
I don't agree with that. I'm trying to say that it's not symm vs asym. But these 5 asyms seem to have the same style.
I'm really not. I'm saying that the playstyle and type of map are both important things, independent of each other. You need fast asym and symm maps alongside slow asym and symm. To be honest all three maps I listed play differently, and that is good, I'm sure the winners do too as Asym maps generally do in some respect. Its just that very few asym maps play like a symm does in balance. Thanks for going through the effort to put that together. No sarcasm. I'll say I pretty much agree with your points on each.
If you want to play a doubles game or make a doubles map that ends 9-8 every time, then knock yourself out. I will be there in your map thread to tell you that your map is boring as ****.
I think it's too early to assume that. Good players over a long time would dictate the preferred playstlyes and the meta
Soooo to sum it all up: "My preferential style doesn't match the judges' preferential style therefore I am going to wreak havoc in this thread. I know because my preferential style is better." :/
Symmetrical maps that played great in Doubles: Warlock, Midship, Sanctuary, Beaver Creek (mostly symmetrical) Narrows, Pit, Citadel, Countdown, Haven, Skyline
I would argue none of those played "great". Maybe battle creek but that's likely attributed to CE's game design moreso than the map itself. Middy war and skyline are all really simple.
Whatever the community may think of the contest or the judges (or 343), one thing I want to stress is that it's about community growth in the end. At least, to me it is. I love seeing new maps and new ideas, and I love seeing maps go into matchmaking (except Station 9), and I love when new people start Forging. And I like being and giving challenges to see improvements, and more than all of that I like when somebody does the impossible and proves everyone wrong. Everyone's next map is always better than their last in some way or another and it's that progression that keeps me coming back, even when I know I'll personally never finish anything lol
As someone who used to be good at Halo and still understands it pretty well. I know that any map can be slowed down. I actually have a slower style of play so maps that are smaller play better for me than most. I was actually talking to someone about how Optic Prison played and they said they loved how fast it played and my response was simply; "Are we playing the same map?"