Anyone quick to say that the judges are a biased clique who picked the wrong maps need to also see that they themselves are part of their own biased clique who picked the wrong maps in someone else's opinion.
There are people on these forums who seem to think the judges' top 10 picks are inherently wrong and now that we have Shiska's applicable quote I fear everyone is going to turn at the judges and say, "You are a biased clique and you picked bad maps!" All I'm saying is that we are all in our own biased cliques and our opinions on who should have won aren't better or worse than the judges'. The Orxgens edit thing is still unfair imo though.
The contest results are releasing this weekend as we are finally ready to make that announcement. Regarding the map 'Orxgen', all of the judges took the lighting issue into account when judging this map. While 'performance' is something that we factor into the judging, it is not equally quantifiable with the rest of the judging categories such as 'gameplay', 'originality', etc. We didn't break this down into a percentage scheme where each category is worth 20%. We made our decisions on maps as a whole and factored all of the categories into our decisions. This makes the judging process less rigid and provides enough flexibility to let incredible work obtain the recognition it deserves without being held back by technical triviality. - Lighting was fixed on that map by deleting them, no other treatment was made to fix performance. (done in less than 5 minutes) - No weapons set ups were altered at all. As an experiment, we tested the map by placing powerups on pads towards the end of our judging session. That's the only alteration we made to the map and it doesn't affect our judgment of the original submission of the map. If you guys feel that this map should not be a part of the top 5 winning maps because of this minor lighting issue please let me know and I will speak with the rest of the judges on this again. The contest was created to celebrate forge and the revival of our community. I thought this would be a great way to provide some healthy competition and want this to be as fair as possible.
You have repeatedly referred to it as a "lighting issue" during our conversations (as if it's a matter of how the map's lighting looks) when it is clearly a performance issue, most likely in an attempt to undermine the severity of the frame-rate drops present on the originally submitted map. Additionally, calling performance issues a "technical triviality" misaligns with the official announcement thread listing Performance as one of the four main categories that maps would be judged on. On top of that, it does not matter how long it takes to alleviate the issue. If the author failed to see and address the issue, they should be held accountable. As for using the altered map in the tournament and for the playlist, that is completely fine and understandable. But brushing it off and continuing on with the map in the contest completely undermines the time and attention every other Forger spent to ensure their maps were rock solid in that category. Furthermore, this still does not excuse the altering of a Forger's map without consulting or informing them.
It's sort of like saying "make sure the map performs well" so I spend a lot of time after testing to make sure the lighting is right & there is no performance issues since I saw that in the testing I did. So if I didn't test it & submitted the map with issues I was unaware of OR tested it & saw the issues but submitted it anyway I probably wouldn't make the cut I would presume.
Thanks for your comment, I would like to know if everyone else feels as strongly as you about this. Upon which, we will reconvene and make a decision. Note: Fro knew about the lighting issue as I talked with him early March about it. I told him about the pads the other week and he thought it was a smart decision to use them.
I would have to side with apk on this. If something fails in a major category it should ruin it's chance of placing. Verse in H2A for the 1v1 contest suffered from performance issues. It didn't place because of this. Even if it was arguably a top 3 map. It wasn't because of performance. If something is that blatantly wrong with a map it should stop it from placing. I have never played the map more than a couple times and that was after the cat was out of the bag about everything.
It does not matter if he was okay with the changes. The fact is you originally made them without his consultation or without informing him until a later time. You even admitted that to me. Also, you most certainly did alter the weapon layout and used that version during testing. You used the version without the Railgun on a weapon pad and with the power-ups on pads (the file which you are the author of), whereas the original version had Railgun on a weapon pad and the power-ups off pads. The last four games you played on Orxgens was your own edited version, as can be seen here: 1 2 3 4 (all of these games were in the midst of you playing some of the other top 5 maps).
The map was not submitted with the weapons on pads. Another thing that was surprising, I was told by Multi that the map had issues with the Halo CE magnum. There was no CE magnum on the map when submitted either. Its a good time to clarify on both of these now.
@Doju I know you love to bring up the CC thread and how much you disapprove of it, but it's done nothing but good since for our community.
Yes it was. In the first game you guys played on the map (which I was a part of), the Railgun was on a weapon pad and the power-ups were not.
No I disapproved of you using the title of "All cc's are bad", then going on a 10 minute tirade about 1 guy. Dont give yourself too much credit, and this has nothing to do with your video.
Thank you. --- Double Post Merged, May 13, 2016 --- Have you ever once considered that maybe there was just that much evidence for the one guy?
Then don't bring it up? And if you thought that video was only about duck then you have comprehension issues.
Oh stop it, I was making the comment about the reddit reaction, nothing about the actual content of yours. Reddit saw CC thread, and turned it into Forge hub bashing Less talk about my comprehension skills thank you.
Thanks for your input man. Looking forward to more comments from everyone on this issue as well. The judges didn't view the performance drop as a 'major issue' since it was so easy to remedy. If everyone has opinions that strongly disagree with ours then we can reconvene and discuss our selections. At the end of the day, we held this contest to make everyone happy and want to do our best to preserve that. Note: I don't remember holding 'Verse' back due to performance issues, it was the scale and simplicity of the layout that held it back for me personally.
No, the main reason it did not get third was performance. Don't you remember how difficult the third map choice was because of general disagreement and Verse having said issue made it even more difficult. If you don't recall my top 3 included it as number one or two. It was in chunks top five as well. It had performance issues. I didn't agree on eggplant. You guys didn't like voidwalk. This is what catapulted Fair and Square and Auburns map into top 3. Both chunk and I had Fair and Square around 5. Auburns map was even lower. But the disagreement between top 3's caused the order of the top 3. We all had Welkin as top 3 but not all of us had it as number 1. It was the only similarity between top 3's giving it the number 1 spot. Fair and Square was next because it did not suffer from performance and it was the next map that are top 5's matched up on. Then third place was decided by retesting certain maps because we did not agree on the two syms., Eggplant being your choice and Voidwalk was mine. Honestly, Voidwalk was the best map to play in the contest because it required spawn awareness and an understanding of when not to push someone off spawn because the size meant your shields were not recharged and the person coming off spawn could easily kill you based on the fact they could get to you easily. The only way it plays bad is if you have no awareness off spawn. It was easily the most competitive 1v1 I played in the contest.