I think you are missing the point. The people you are describing are the ones the CCs are supposed to collect maps from. The base skills of a Cartographer are to cast a wide net seeking content to present to 343i, and work with forgers to bring their maps up to spec. Any skills we bring to the table beyond that are merely a bonus.
I would argue that in most cases, an understanding of level design and forging ability is a precedent in order to recognize maps of similar quality. Also, doesn't War self proclaim the CC's to be the best of the best?
You jsut said you have been out the loop for a while, then complain you havent seen change. There is more to the situation than just that thread. Not only is your post bringing up an outdated (and locked due to a request from the OP) thread, but is off topic for this thread, and is quite clearly baiting the topic to come up again due to your issues with CCs. Knowing your history, I can safely presume this is a bait, considering your last posts on here was essentially insulting the community on here and other sites. Im not fully aware of the far cry model, but having voting in the Halo community would lead to some hilariously bad results (but people on here would prefer that over Warholic/Nokyward leading the CCs, so let them be I guess) I dont think I can disagree with this anymore. Yes, gameplay is king, because if Im not having fun on a map, its going to be shite. Thats why in AAA studios you have 2 separate positions, the actual level designer and the art team. A good level designer does not need to be a good at the aesthetics side of things, and a guy with excellent aestehics skills does not make him a good map designer. You see this with Certain Affinity, they over focus on visuals, leading to frame rate drops. over use of sunlight, blue and red players blending in with the background, all at the expense of gameplay.
This exactly. The ability to filter/judge content as well as engage with the community are most important. @MultiLockOn I nearly went to apply for CCs when I was active in Halo 4 despite not being able to create a map or forge at all. Am I a bad candidate for such a role over somebody who can forge well but doesnt have a lick of game knowledge? Not really. Im still amazed that you seem to be targeting all the CCs when your last video was a 10 minute rant at Duck with shitey click bait titles. Anyways, no more discussion on this, take to other forums or start a new thread elsewhere.
Not really relevant to a hypothetical scenario but ok. Another example is @MATCLAN , runs the BTB settings, filters out the maps and settings despite never making a map of any sorts (nor do I think he can). Is he suitable for his role, or should a forger take over? Same with the likes of Ghost or Killa KC, they filtered content rather than create maps Either way, take it to a suitable thread for CC discussion.
I made a map that we used in Reach actually (there was a second map too, but that was a complete re-imagining of a re-imagining of Sandbox so I don't really count that). Still wouldn't really consider myself a map maker though, as that wasn't a case of making a map for the sake of making a map, but rather an attempt at producing a stopgap solution to the default bloom we had to deal with at the time by measuring out engagement distances specifically to reduce that randomness. I'd consider myself more of a map editor than a maker; I'm quite comfortable tweaking pickups and spawning on maps and working with the creators (when they're open to the idea) to rework aspects of a map to suit a specific gametype or envisioned niche/purpose. I much prefer seeing the cool stuff that other people come up with and adapting that to work in a specific gameplay environment than making anything myself; I'll freely admit that the build quality is almost guaranteed to be better and it tends to result in a lot more variety for both gameplay and visuals too.
That isn't consistent with deciding what is worthy to push forward. If you are not a solid judge then how would you be able to decide?
By playing the maps with a large pool of players, collating feedback, then discussing that feedback with other cartographers. It's a pretty scientific process - you log your findings, share your findings, then come to a conclusion. I'd maybe go a step further and say that we overlook the amount of responsibility that is on the community as a whole when it comes to identifying maps for 343's consideration simply because the quality of feedback given in response to a map you may have played at some point will affect what information the cartographers have to work with. The more good feedback we can give as players, the more map creators and CCs have to work with. The idea that the CCs are or should be the ultimate arbiters of content is grossly misrepresenting how this relationship between content, community, and developer is supposed to work.
I made three distinct points. Do you disagree with all of them, or just some of them? And what do you find so disagreeable?
Yes. If you don't have forge skill/ or level design abilities yourself you shouldn't be a CC, end of story. Is that so outrageous? For FORGE cartographers to be good forgers? Do you go on the street and pick up a random hobo to be a taste tester for 5 star restaurants? The title of my video has absolutely 0 bearing on its content whatsoever. In fact, if its a topic I'm passionate about and believe needs exposure, I SHOULD be doing everything I can to give the video exposure. If you interpreted it as a 10 minute duck bashing video then I question your comprehension skills.
Personally I think at least one CC position should be for a high tier MM player regardless of their forging capability. They could offer a perspective simply not found among the current cartographers as well as a lot more experience with breaking maps to abuse any advantage possible. If a player has the communication skills and temperament to work in a group setting and consistently maintains several Champion ranks I would consider such a player to be more qualified than several existing or past Cartographers simply because there's already a lot of map creator representation but very little from the other side of the fence. Heck, one player to represent each playlist could be even better; it's already known that Cartographers are specialised in some ways. The thoughts of the people who are going to play your content matter just as much, if not more, than the opinions of a bunch of other content creators because we end up forming our own echo chambers with very few people with significantly different experiences to offer insight of their own. The goal is to forward the best content to the masses via playlist integration, and currently there are deficiencies in the way that's done with regards to representation, but the answer is not simply to limit the influential positions to yet more forgers.
Okay, maybe my parallel wasn't the best example lol. Regardless, I've yet to meet anyone who understands what makes a good map who's not a level designer in some way or another. This isn't a radical request.
This is why the villains always want to destroy the world - the endless back and forth goes no where and it always ends up corrupt again. Get rid of the CC system period. 99.999999% of the drama in the community is related to the system. All this **** should be automated.
Isn't that what I said though? To be a CC you need to be solid on map design not solid on forge. And strong art talent, not necessarily knowing how to switch colors in forge. --- Double Post Merged, Apr 25, 2016 --- That IS what I said.
I'm finding it hard to disagree with Multi. While you don't need to be a god tier forger to like or dislike a map, cartographers also interact with and build for the community. Having knowledge of your craft is pretty important when fulfilling that function.